‘Ender’s Game’ Boycott Organizers Respond to Lionsgate Statement

enders game posterThe group behind the boycott of the upcoming Ender’s Game film insists that while Lionsgate has publicly rejected the anti-gay views and activism of author Orson Scott Card and the National Organization for Marriage, the studio still hasn’t gone far enough. However, it’s unclear what more the organization wants.

“A benefit premiere, indeed any outreach to the LGBT community by Lionsgate, ought to be much appreciated,” Geeks OUT said in a statement issued this morning (below). “What’s clear is that whether or not they support his views, Lionsgate is standing by their man and their would-be blockbuster. They made the common, perhaps cynical, calculation that audiences wouldn’t connect Ender’s Game with Card’s very public homophobia — or wouldn’t care. Geeks OUT appreciates that most American families work for every dollar and care deeply about where that money goes and what it supports.”

A board member of the National Organization for Marriage, a group dedicated to the opposition of same-sex marriage, Card has tried to link homosexuality to childhood molestation, and advocated home-schooling to ensure children “are not propagandized with the ‘normality’ of ‘gay marriage.’” In an 1990 essay, he called for anti-sodomy laws to remain on the books “to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society’s regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society”; he amended that stance 13 years later, when the Supreme Court struck down anti-sodomy laws as unconstitutional. Following rulings by “dictator-judges” in 2008 that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, Card infamously endorsed a government overthrow.

The author issued his own statement about the boycott earlier this week, saying, in part, that “With the recent Supreme Court ruling, the gay marriage issue becomes moot. The Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution will, sooner or later, give legal force in every state to any marriage contract recognized by any other state. Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute.”

Here’s the full Geeks OUT statement:

As proud members of the LGBT community, champions of creative freedom and honest self-expression, and a group at whom the film Ender’s Game is directly marketed, we appreciate Lionsgate’s record of doing good things and its admirable, strongly worded rejection of Ender’s Game author Orson Scott Card’s and the National Organization of Marriage’s anti-gay activism.

The simple fact is that Skip Ender’s Game has never been about the content of the novel or the film Ender’s Game. It’s about money. It’s about the millions of dollars the company has already paid to Card and the potential millions he and the National Organization for Marriage stand to make off of the success of the film—our money.

A benefit premiere, indeed any outreach to the LGBT community by Lionsgate, ought to be much appreciated. What’s clear is that whether or not they support his views, Lionsgate is standing by their man and their would-be blockbuster. They made the common, perhaps cynical, calculation that audiences wouldn’t connect Ender’s Game with Card’s very public homophobia—or wouldn’t care. Geeks OUT appreciates that most American families work for every dollar and care deeply about where that money goes and what it supports.

Skip Ender’s Game is not a threat; it is a reality. Our pledge adds hundreds of signtatures every day from sci-fi fans around the world who would rather stay home than support homophobia. We have only just started and Geeks OUT and its allies are prepared to carry on past November 1. Nothing Card nor Lionsgate has said changes the fact that skipping Ender’s Game is the easiest way to ensure none of your dollars go to Orson Scott Card’s and the National Organization of Marriage’s extreme anti-gay agenda.

Directed by Gavin Hood, Ender’s Game stars Asa Butterfield, Harrison Ford and Ben Kingsley. The film opens Nov. 1.

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Comments

  • dirtmound

    Call the waaaaaaaaaambulance.

  • Don Strutz

    Here’s a novel idea, if you don’t agree with his views just don’t see the movie. I’m growing tired of groups with their fake outrage. I’d love to see this group go after Alec Baldwin.

  • 010101100010101110

    It’s a fair point, as far as the protest goes. The issue isn’t whether or not Lions Gate is pro or anti gay equality, its whether or not they are choosing to associate with a person espousing antigay equality beliefs for profit.

    You can say the work of art should stand on it’s own, and simply put it will. If you want to see Enders Game you can. If however you agree with the idea that an artists statements should effect your view of their art, you can skip it.
    Really, if the protestors did say “oh, it’s o.k. now” after the small ammount of outreach it would seem like a shake down. As it is, their point remains. They don’t like Orson Scott Card as a person (the feeling is mutual I assume) and so they do not wish to support his work, and ask others to do the same.
    Given what a small foot print this film really has, this sort of bad press could kill it (theoretically), that a larger film wouldn’t suffer. But that is all the more reason to consider the down stream personalities of the artists before buying into the product for a studio. And while you can say that if classical artists were held to the same standards we wouldn’t have many great works. That’s fair, except that many of these artist (like Wagner) are held up for their past, and suffer for it (as it were).
    The reality is, many of these past artists held beliefes or went along with ideas that were popular at the time, so they suffered no effects in their life time. Orson’s problem is that he is alive at a point when his belifes left the mainstream and became marginalized. It’s a tough break for him, but he could always change his mind about the basic humanity of gay people and avoid the problem, or stick to his guns, and be the hero of another population.

  • Matt

    Yes, that’s what a boycott is. They’re not seeing the movie. They’re just also trying to organize more people into not seeing the movie. Re-read the paragraph about Card’s history of homophobia and explain to me how this is “fake outrage”?

  • Tom James

    How did that Chick-Fil-A protest work out for the “Proud LGBT Community”? Oh that’s right. It totally backfired on you.

    Having some Chick-Fil-A for lunch and then going to see the Ender’s Game movie actually sounds like a great plan.

  • 010101100010101110

    That is litterally what they are doing. They are not going to a film, and telling people “hey if you agree with me, don’t go to the movie as well”. That is what a boycot is. Not someone forcing people to not go to a film, but asking people if they agree with them not to go.
    Your problem seems to be that you are afraid that you enjoyment of the art will associate you with the artist. That is a risk you take of course, but the boycot itself is only as effective as those people who agree with it. If you don’t agree with it, quit whinning and go see the movie.
    That’s how free will works.

  • Kradeiz

    I wouldn’t call it ‘fake outrage’. They’re understandably upset that a hypocritical homophobe could possibly make millions of dollars and that Lionsgate is just looking the other way.

  • 010101100010101110

    The difference is, that the market for rapidly prepared food is slightly broader than the market for esoteric science fiction fantasy.
    While there are certainly antigay equality persons in the scififantasy community, there are likely far more in the rapidly prepared food market. Also Chck-Fil-A benefited from it’s market base being located primarily in the southern united states where antigay equality is a far more common feeling, where as again the Enders Game Film will need to compete on a national venue, the largest markets of which tend to favor gay equality.
    So, enjoy your sandwich and show, that is your choice, others will do other things, that is again, how free will works. You can even encourage your other anti gay equality friends to come with you to the film, and might even make some more converts to sci fi fantasy.

  • Georgina Quiñones

    We should do something alone these lines if they don’t make a Wonder Woman solo movie. The glorification of male super heroes in Hollywood, WB and DC comics is unfair and we need diversity is time. Female super heroes are as important as males, is time Hollywood give us our Super Heroines movies!

  • Lyle

    I find it fascinating how people like Card are now trying to twist this so that he is the victim. His whole statement about seeing if his opponents will show tolerance to his point of view (which, by the way, is intolerance to his opponents) is like saying, “I’m the victim because I can’t control the lives of people I disagree with.” I actually read his little manifesto, and found the funniest part is his paranoid fear that, in the future, people who think like him will be placed in mental asylums.

  • Georgina Quiñones

    I think is inspiring! We should unite more in this way, to change things, nothing works better than not support their game of monopoly. Hit them where it most hurt them!

  • Braam Saget

    I’m going to see it looks good, all this outrage is understandable but every single comment is the same words in a different order, no original views just the regurgitated diatribe of someone that apparently has a legit gripe and I don’t so I’m watching the movie

  • Don Strutz

    No it is fake outrage. To attack someone just because they don’t agree with you? Liberals love free speach as long as you agree with them. If you don’t then they always start calling names.

  • Don Strutz

    Did you contact Capital One yet?

  • Braam Saget

    How do you know he is anti-gay equality do you know him… no so don’t assume, my brothers gay and I was best man at his wedding and guess what? I’m seeing Enders Game why?, because I love the book and I can separate the art from artist. You say the money gets back to helping marginalize people which may or not be true but in that case your a murderer because your taxes help buy weapons and drones that kill people are going to stop paying taxes, or every time you shop at Wal-Mart you support the way they treat employers and factory worker and every time you eat fast food you support the horrible treatment of animals.

  • Waquoit

    “Having some Chick-Fil-A for lunch and then going to see the Ender’s Game movie actually sounds like a great plan.”
    I would feel confident betting large sums of money that anyone posting the above is anti-gay equality. I know guys like that.

  • Vex Godglove

    You do realize that free speech includes the right to voice ones opposition to something, yes? No one is saying Card can’t say or believe what he wants. But we who disagree with him are allowed to say what we want as well and we are free to not let him profit off of our hard earned money. I for one do not want my money going to him so that he can use it to spread his hate and lies. You are free to do as you wish and so are we. It is not “name calling” if it is an accurate description. Card is indeed a hate-spewing homophobe, that’s not tossing insults, that is stating facts.

  • Matt

    “…just because they don’t agree with you” is a gross understatement of Card’s position. It’s not a simple difference of faith or opinion, as much as the anti-gay talking points would have you believe. I love free speech as long as it’s rational; disagree with me all you want, that’s great, but you can’t call for criminalization of an entire class of people and expect me to dismiss it as “disagreement.”

    Also: *speech.

  • Vex Godglove

    The difference is you are forced to pay taxes under threat of imprisonment, you are not forced to buy tickets to this movie. And plenty of us do not eat at fast food restaurants or shop at Walmart.

  • Matt

    Not to mention the sarcasti-quotes around “Proud LGBT Community”

  • Braam Saget

    Again I’ve eaten at Chick-Fil-A and I am going to see Enders Game and I have no problem with gay people, I get the sentiment I do but making a assumption about everyone just ends up pissing people off

  • Rule of thumb

    All that time that gays waste protesting thing could be better spent fucking each other. Instead of making so much banter about who you rub your crotch on, just do it, have a Coke and shut up. Also to clarify, I voted for gay rights in MD this last election. I have no problem with equal rights, just the cunts who find the need to always try to express themselves instead of just allowing themselves to blend in with society.

  • Braam Saget

    Really “plenty of us do not eat fast food or shop at Walmart” have you seen the earnings for this year alone and again I want to see this movie it looks good and I find it funny if all this id essentially about people being allowed to express their beliefs freely and yet Card expressed his beliefs and while I disagree with his views fully accept his right to do so and as a private citizen what he chooses to do with his money is not for me to dictate, yet he is being targeted and attacked by hypocrites. You can’t champion freedom of expression and Equality while silencing those that don’t agree with you.

  • rasslor56

    You might have made a point if you used grammar and punctuation. As it is, you’re just proving that anti-gay supporters are brain-dead. Go spend your money on a loser.

  • superman1930

    Interesting situation here. I’m curious how this will effect the film or not.

  • Fistigons

    I asked my homosexual cousins if they were planning on seeing Enders game and they said yes. If they can see it why can’t you?

  • Braam Saget

    My brothers gay and I was best man at his wedding. I could come back and insult you really but in your overzealous attempt to defend your view on this issue, you proved yourself incapable of holding a conversation.

  • yupsolo

    I thought their message was OK amd agreed until they equated watching this movie to supporting homophobia. That’s just BS, typical by this demographic.

  • yupsolo

    Wow just shut up. “stop glorifying men already damnit, now glorify Wonder Woman please!”

  • yupsolo

    If homosexuals just go around banging eachother or sit by and do nothing – nothing will happen. There is not proper separation of church and state in the country and there never has been nor will there ever be if people don’t stand up to dogma.

  • Braam Saget

    The hypocrisy is astounding fighting for equality by silencing people with differing views because we all know how that works out

  • meh

    ….Yes because ONE fucking movie about a superhero female would be so horrible, and she didn’t say glorify she said ACKNOWLEDGE HER FUCKING EXISTENCE!

  • Brent Lambert

    But see the problem with that line of thinking is that you’re asking the gay community to be just as silent by NOT saying how they feel about someone who has differing views. It’s a circular logic that just doesn’t work. Yes, people have the right to have differing views. But people also have the right to tell you why they think your views are crappy.

    We have freedom of speech. Not freedom of consequences. You can say inflammatory or offensive things (not you personally, but in general) all day long but you don’t have the right to gripe when those offensive things create negative consequences for you.

  • Braam Saget

    Catwoman……

  • Braam Saget

    It sucked bad

  • Georgina Quiñones

    No but I contact the Zeitgeist Movement and The Resource Base Economy group!

  • Braam Saget

    There is conversation and then there is just hurling insults until the person with differing views is forced into silence which doesn’t change anything. Seeing a movie doesn’t make someone homophobic, eating a sandwich and shopping at a store doesn’t that why this boycott is purely being used to attack some one that has differing views because instead of trying to sit down and debate Card on his views. People have chosen to boycott, which not only affects him but everyone that put a lot of hard work in to this movie and punishing them for the actions of one person does not sit well with me.

  • Leo Vader

    Well the issue isn’t disbelieving that the movie appeals to gay people. Assuming they know that the author thinks they shouldn’t have rights, maybe they’re just more willing to look past it than me. To each their own. But for those it matters to, it’s incredibly easy not to see this movie. So we do what we can to keep our money away from repulsive figures like Orson Scott Card.

  • http://nickpiers.wordpress.com/ Nick Piers

    Because they don’t speak for every homosexual out there.

  • Leo Vader

    I mean some of your money goes to a homophobic organization called The National Organization for Marriage so there’s that

  • Braam Saget

    I’m assuming you go grocery shopping so you obviously know what every company that produces the food you buy does with the money you spend?

  • Braam Saget

    That movie was Liquid ass

  • Leo Vader

    So was Green Lantern, they didn’t stop making male superhero movies because of that.

  • Leo Vader

    Honestly, of course not. I do know the stores I go to and their views however. And there’s something to be said for buying food to survive versus seeing a homophobe’s movie because you’re bored.

  • Braam Saget

    How many solo male superhero movies were box offfice successes before Green Lantern at least 4. Catwoman was the first big budget heroine movie and it Bombed and lost the studio nearly 20 million dollars. I’m not saying I don’t want a Wonder Woman movie but I can see why they may be hesitant

  • Leo Vader

    I agree with the last part of your comment, that makes sense to me.

  • Leo Vader

    My point was just that there are shitty male superhero movies too. Catwoman WAS a terrible movie but it wasn’t because it was about a woman. Hesitance does make sense but it’s been like ten years since Catwoman came out. It’s time to try again with a decent writer/director, I think.

  • Braam Saget

    It’s true Card is already rich this boycott won’t affect him but the producers,writers, directors, actors, makeup artists, stuntmen and women, camera and lighting crews that worked hard to make this movie are the ones being screwed over.

  • Braam Saget

    I see you point but it has to be done right. I say let Gail Simone write a treatment it will probably be better than the sub-par Josss Whedon Wonder Woman script

  • Braam Saget

    I’m talking branded products within the supermarket for instance before the inception of Fairtrade Kenco was known to pay there coffee growers criminally low wages or the abysmal treatment of cattle, Monsanto being directly linked to the suicide of countless Indian farmers. you may agree with a stores values but they still sell products that directly fund companies that have in the past or still adversely affect the world and people within it.

  • http://www.spinoffonline.com Kevin Melrose

    While the director, producers and one or two of the actors may have deals in which their compensation is based in part of the film’s performance, stunt people, the lighting crew, etc. are paid a wage and wouldn’t be affected by a boycott.

  • Kyle Elliott

    i dont really care, what cards views are personly, the guy wrote an amazeing novel/series. so im going to see the movie regaurdless of what his personal views are.

  • http://www.thenerdybird.com/ Jill Pantozzi

    No one is trying to silence, Card. He can say whatever he likes, the boycott is an attempt to stop some money going into his pockets which will, in turn, most likely go toward the National Organization of Marriage, a group that fights against equality for all humans.

  • Nathan

    Maybe we should know about all that. Maybe we should take time to get informed on all that. Keeping silent and staying uninformed is not how we change morally wrong habits.

  • ti dave

    OSC has already been paid, so that horse has already left the barn. Therefore, the boycott of Lionsgate is essentially punitive after-the-fact and vindictive. This boycott *should have* been started while LG was negotiating with OSC.

  • Chris Bowen

    personally i prefer when both sides keep their views to themselves. i respect everybody’s right to their own opinion. no-one should be forced to accept homosexuality if they do not agree with it on moral or religious grounds, and no-one should be persecuted for being gay either. there is just too much attention on the subject. i’m heterosexual but i don’t define myself by my sexuality so why should gay people??

  • SR

    Would you go see a Mein Kampf movie if Hitler were still alive? And if he was getting millions of dollar to put into his Nazi regime? Pretty much the same thing here….

  • John Vasiliou

    It won`t.

  • KG

    so basically, Lionsgate might as well just ignore them and keep doing what they’re doing.

    Since, based on this statement, nothing will satisfy them other than just canceling the movie’s release or finding a way to release it while ensuring that Card doesn’t get a red cent for something based off of his novel (which is illegal, unethical, and impossible).

    So basically, no matter what Lionsgate does at this point, they’ll boycott it. Might as well just ignore them then. They can’t just not release the movie at this point.

  • bravo

    It really wouldn’t matter what the film company said or did at this point. The movie is made and will be released regardless. The group behind the proposed boycott has been handed a soapbox to shout their agenda from – whether it turns hypocritical or not. Even shelving the film at this point wouldn’t help. It’d be nice if one day these groups shouting tolerance didn’t try and cram their viewpoint down others throats.

  • bravo

    Pretty short view that, the bulk of the people who worked the film won’t be affected by the boycott. What happens when the studio decides not to take a risk on a great story in the future because of some association that might be controversial. all those jobs will dry up.

  • dswynne

    Too bad that Card’s own statement of accepting the inevitable outcome of this debate is being conveniently ignored because a few butthurt nerds who seek retribution for past deeds, rather than enjoy the victory of their position.

  • Juan Morales

    What makes him a hypocritical homophobe? He seems to be stating what he believes. You have the right not to agree. He has the right to say it. I see why you might want to call him a homophobe. It’s the same as when someone is called a racist for stating different beliefs than the party line, but hypocrisy? Perhaps I am missing something.

  • Juan Morales

    Has he stated he will donate a percentage of the profits to NOM?

  • Jake

    holy shit, lots of assumptions here. You can’t say sci-fi fans are liberal and you can’t say southerners are more bigoted, that is fucking profiling, you sir or maam, or the bigot now.

  • Jake Meier

    You “protestors” are saying the same thing over and over again. I’m sorry, theres too much evil in this world to choose this battle. I am not outraged by this, no one should be. Its just like the uproar over the Brave Disney Princess thing. Women still get stoned to death for going outside, genocide is still going on, for fucks sake. Find soemthing real to fight about, let religious wierdos and celebs have their shitty beliefs, lets try to change some of the things that are truly unjust in this world. This won’t even be a footnote in the history of tolerance if we could manage to change the things that really need changing.

  • coalminds

    Unlike homosexuals I’m insistent that every person on Earth agree with me and look forward to this adaptation of a great story.

  • Khan

    I dont like that the government uses my tax dollars to fund a variety of things I am against or despise. I still pay my taxes. I dont like that every movie, book, comic, or website I visit seems to have a “think this way” vibe to it. But I still go to movies and read. If you start boycotting and crying over everything—you’re gonna miss out on a lotta stuff. For example: if you were so anti-gay you couldn’t watch anything Ian McKellen was in—you’d miss X-Men, LOTR, and some other cool projects.

    Likewise, if you are so anti Orson Scott Card, Organized religion, or whatever—you’re gonna miss out on some cool things too. I love Chik-fil-a. and I plan to see this flick.

    Some people just walk around life looking to be offended and cry. Thats why the Spanish word “negro” cannot be used in public schools now. Because someone cried. Really—negro is a bad word now? Forensic scientists and anthropologists still use the descriptive adjective “negroid”. Are they racist?

    http://www.ibtimes.com/fired-using-word-negro-petrona-smith-65-bronx-teacher-suing-school-after-spanish-lesson-firing#

    Good God folks—grow the hell up. Orson Scott Card isn’t gonna throw gays into camps anymore than Ian McKellen is going break into your home and make you “turn gay” with magic powers. Dan Caty isn’t putting anything into the chicken to make you go to church, and Ellen isn’t making the employees of JCPenney into ?-sexuals.

    These “call to arms” everytime someone dares to say something you dont like is bull crap. Because one of thes days a wolf will really show up. Then no one is going to listen because everyone has spent years crying about everything.

    Everytime there is anything that is gay, gay gay—-CBR turns into the personal “gay action squad” complete with rainbow colored cape. Give this crap a rest already. You got the Superman thing squashed. A thing that some wanted to read. especially as opposed to the recent “Punisher” style Superman being depicted in JL. Great job. How about if someone wanted Big Bang Theory pulled because the lead actor was gay? Would that make you upset? Jim Parsons is funny. I dont care what he does off the show. Orson Scott Card has a career too.

  • Opus

    It wont, in the world. I am not kidding. More people like Cards books than homosexuals, or even care for their bemoaning and propaganda. See Russia for example. I would like these guys to go there and start with their ridiculous demands.

    Basically they want attention at any price. Also, you should see how they treat they own. SOme singer, homosexual, claimed he is not for marriage and they practically called for his banishment from society. And some married activist penned a column how he and his boyfriend have open marriage, and they can have as much partners as they want – also they have adopted teenager. Setting a great example, arent they.

    Basically, I boycott all things homosexual from popular culture, movies, books and comics that are done by them or propagandize their lifestyle.

  • Jive Turkey

    OMG, will it ever end? Let’s just jump on anyone that doesn’t go along with homosexual views. Wow.

  • doctortom

    I didn’t know thar Orson Scott Card was burning people in ovens and annexing the Sudatenland. Thanks for letting us know he’s doing the same things.

  • Yusuf Alamo

    If in this country’s laws afford people the so-called freedom and right to criticize and insult another person’s religion, then Card should be afforded the right to hold views of his own concerning those within the LGBT community. Period.

  • Yusuf Alamo

    I like Card and I’m still going to see the movie. I could care less what anyone thinks. You can’t always throw a tantrum and expect for everyone to follow.

  • 010101100010101110

    I know Orson Scott Card is anti gay equality, because he has stated that he is anti gay equality. That’s how you know anyone’s opinion on the subject. Everything else you’ve said is a response to someone else I suppose, since I’ve never said anything, except that many people do think that dissassociation of the artist from the art is not a fair assessment of the art, and as such relevant to the discussion.

    All my real point was, is that one should understand concepts like marketing and business model before going off on what the effect of a boycott will have on it.
    As an example, if Paula Deen were a racist, it is doubful that this was a fact hidden from her employers prior to the recent revelation of words she may or may not have used. However, from a business model point of view for her employers, it simply isn’t worth it to be associated with her. They may be just as awful (likely they are, because they either knowingly employed a racist, or know she is not one and are just piling on) but their duty to their stock holders it to have a controversy free network.
    For Lionsgate, they do not want to be seen as associating with someone who has made active statements of anti gay equality, but find themselves in a position where they’ve already invested a good deal of money. Again, they likely knew Orson Scott Card’s opinion from the start but opted to move forward anyway, because they hoped it wouldn’t become an issue. It has, and the company has to deal with it. Unfortunately there is not easy way for them to do so, and as a result they will likely be more cautious in who they associate with in the future.

  • 010101100010101110

    A boycott silences no one, it simple voices your own opinion with dollars. That is how things are done in a capitalist society. Money is speech, and people have the right to divert their speech away from Enders Game if they so feel the desire to do so. They can even do so for reasons completely unrelated to gay equality issues.
    If a reviewr stated that the film was not entertaining and you shouldn’t wast your money, is she violating someone else free speech or exercising her own?

  • rasslor56

    Why? Because I pointed out, that despite the fact you have a gay relative, you’re going to give money to someone who means him harm? You don’t have a rational reason for your point. You take away from your “support” of him by saying that the OSC gripe is legitimate. I may or may be capable of holding a conversation—But I can demonstrate loyalty WAAAAAAAAAY better than you.

  • 010101100010101110

    Good for you, why do you want to silence people who disagree with you? It’s wonderful that you are pro gay equality, it would be just as wonderful if you were anti gay equality, we are all wonderful aren’t we?
    We each have the right to make our opinion known and to encourage others to follow our lead. You say Chick Fil A is worth associating with a weird doomsday cult, I say KFC is just as good without the baggage. We can each make our own decision based on personal taste, and not get upset when someone mentions that they disagree with our opinion, but simply offer our counter view.
    Orson Scott Card has made his opinions known, as have Lions gate and the organizers of this protest. Now, we can all make our informed decision.
    What is bothersom, is that it bothers you soo much that people have a differnt opinion than you. Go see the movie, have a sandwich, again that’s how free will works.

  • 010101100010101110

    Umm…I didn’t say sci-fans are liberal, or that southerners are bigoted. What I said was, and see if you can follow along. That the Southern United States has a broader market that is anti gay equality (Note I’m using a morally neutral term so as to specifically avoid a notion of bigotry associated there in) this is born out by the politics of the region and opinion polling. That doesnt’ mean that there aren’t liberals in the south, quite the contrary there are many, just that if your business model is based in the south you have a larger pool of customers to draw from among persons who are anti gay equality than you would in another part of the country where public opinion polling shows a sronger support for gay equality.
    As to the liberalness of sci fi fans, or more specically esoteric science fiction, that is more annecdotal, I’ll admit, but for a small studio, and a relativly obscure property, every fan is important, and loosing even a minority in a block because of a backlash is not something the business persons in charge of the project want or need. Hence the effectivness of the boycott, and how it differentiates from the Chick Fil A boycott.
    Apples should only be compared to apples, and not cherries. Both may be red and round, but one is a much differnt product needing differnt preparation and units of sale to make a profit.

  • http://alphabete-noir.com/ Constella Espj

    I think it makes him hypocritical to be accepting money from an LGBT-friendly company with LGBT employees who probably worked very hard on this film, just so he can use the money he makes to continue oppressing those same LGBT people who just made him a bunch of dough.

  • http://alphabete-noir.com/ Constella Espj

    My, that’s very grown-up of you.

  • Ookamunka

    Everyone who boycotts this and doesn’t boycott gasoline for their cars because it comes from middle eastern countries that don’t believe in equal rights either is a hypocrite.

  • Scott Mortensen

    I enjoy the work of Hemingway, Lovecraft and Roman Polanski despite ethical qualms with the artists themselves. And after all these years, ‘Speaker for the Dead’ is still one of my top 5 favorite novels. It isn’t that I don’t understand the aims of the boycott to hurt the artist financially for his (religion derived) views, but I think I’m going to have to let the art speak for itself on this one.
    I didn’t stop reading his books because of his extreme views, I stopped reading his books because they started being terrible. I doubt anyone boycotting the movie was really dying to see it anyway, since they long ago ostracized the art along with the artist. It isn’t going to hurt the bottom line, bad reviews and weak marketing probably will though.

  • Scott Mortensen

    I think he knows he’s on the wrong side of history, he’s an intelligent guy, and his views originally surprised me because there is a lot of humanity (and, lets face it, homoeroticism) in his work. I think he’ll stick to his guns though, out of sheer stubborness.

    Given the homoerotic subtext in his works (or in Songmaster, straight out text, he says he recieved hatemail for it actually promoting homosexuality at the time…) I think he’s a homophobe in the true sense of the word. It isn’t hate, it’s fear. And part of what he fears is a repressed part of himself.

  • Braam Saget

    I can separate the artists work from the artist do I agree with card no but his views on gay rights are not mentioned anywhere in his books. Tolkien was Christian and I am atheist should I stop reading Lord of the rings?, Robert Downey Jr. is a convicted felon should I stop watching every movie he is in? and Chris Brown beat a women yet he still sells millions of records and wins Grammy’s which by the way is ridiculous. If you have ever shopped at Walmart,bought Exxon Fuel or given money to the Salvation Army you are essentially against gay rights in your eyes which is a narrow small minded view. I never said their gripe was legitimate at anytime but I believe they have a right to express their views because free speech is a right afforded to everyone not just people you agree. On the subject of loyalty if you think watching a movie equates to disloyalty your an idiot, in no way does a movie have any bearing on how I view people or a subject by that Logic by watching Braveheart I agree with Mel Gibson’s views on the Jewish community and that the holocaust never happened.

  • Scott Mortensen

    They’re not going to make a Wonder Woman movie because Wonder Woman is a lame character. Regardless of if she’s the most famous female superhero, she has a terrible costume, with a patriotic theme that doesn’t make a lot of sense given where she’s from, she has an origin that can’t be done easily in the current crop of realistic superheroes, and she has the most common superpowers you can get. Whenever I picture Wonder Woman lately, I just see her sitting there, completely visable, in an invisable jet.

    They would probably make a Black Widow movie just on Johannsons request, though. She has a lot of pull in hollywood.
    I’d like to see a film treatment of Alias: AKA Jessica Jones, but maybe she’ll show up as a reporter on the S.H.I.E.L.D tv series. Especially if that turns out to be Luke Cage after all.

  • Garry Boldwater

    I find this all a little confusing. I thought Mr. Card was a well-known pedophile, known by everyone to be obsessed with young boys. The writing and subject matter of his books has always backed that up. My understanding is that one of the Enders books contains a whole chapter that describes the shape, buoyancy, and smell of all the boys’ various penises. If that doesn’t suggest a man who has sex with children, I don’t know what else would.

  • Garry Boldwater

    So I guess you think the “liberals,” instead of boycotting his movie, should have tried to pass laws making it illegal for Mormons to get married. If OSC found such a movement offensive, he would only be expressing “fake outrage.” Everyone has the right to express their intention to imprison the other if they don’t do what the other does.

  • ragemanchoo

    If Card was against interracial marriage, would you be saying the same thing? He’s a bigot. Calling a bigot a bigot isn’t censorious, its descriptively accurate.

  • Garry Boldwater

    A recent study showed that the average Evangelical christian thinks about gay sex between 9 and 13 hours per day. You seem to fit into that category. What a bunch of closet cases! By your own admission, you plan much of your day around the subject of gay men. I hope one day you will learn to accept your longings.

  • Scott Mortensen

    I first read Enders Game in 6th grade (I picked it out based on its cover, I think) and it has a place in my heart. I’m intrigued by whether they can pull it off as a 2 hour movie. I don’t think the boycott will recieve any actual mainstream attention and I don’t think any of the supporters of the boycott were dying to see it anyway. So, since the boycott is going to be a completely ineffective token gesture by internerd leftists, and will change neither peoples opinions on sexuality or the actual bottom line, I will reserve the right to see the movie based on the same criteria I choose to see any other movie, whether or not it looks good.

    I wouldn’t see anything based on a Card novel written after 1996 though, because as he became ever more religious he lost the sense of humanity in favor of cheesy propagandizing. The Shadow books were a chore to wade into.

  • Scott Mortensen

    Assuming this gets any mainstream attention. I doubt the ‘hundreds of signatures a day’ on the internet is going to harm the bottom line. Has there ever been a token gesture more useless than an internet petition? You people think a blog news blurb and a comments section makes you the commandants of popular culture.

  • Scott Mortensen

    No, he’s right, pointing out errors in grammar when you know what the person meant stems from a place of unearned superiority, and most intelligent people stop doing it in their late teens. If you wanted to have a conversation you wouldn’t have violated the Wheaton Rule.

  • Scott Mortensen

    I don’t think most do. I think the LGBT people that announce their sexuality within the first 5 minutes of meeting them do so because it is the most interesting thing about them.

  • Scott Mortensen

    You should look up “Godwin’s law.”

  • Scott Mortensen

    Well, thats not a very good idea either.

    I support gay marriage on the basis that they should have the rights afforded to married people in regards to joint taxes, inheritence and hospital visits. I oppose marriage because I believe those things should be afforded to any dedicated couple regardless of paperwork and religious ceremonies. It’s quite a logical postulation that evades resolution. Basically, they should be allowed to get married, but they shouldn’t want to.

  • Scott Mortensen

    Eating a banana is wrong on so many levels, on both moral and environmental grounds. Ethical considerations for your ideology can only go so far before the real world starts to push back.

  • Kradeiz

    If he was saying the same stuff about a racial group, would you call that ‘fake outrage’?
    He isn’t just voicing his opinions, he’s been trying to have certain people denied their rights. There is a very real difference.
    And if you consider the people at geekOut to be attacking Card, what do you call what he was doing to them?

  • Kradeiz

    He is a hypocrite because after the Supreme Court overturned anti-gay acts like Proposition 8, he was quoted as saying that gay people and activists should “show tolerance towards those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute.”
    And yes, they should show tolerance and forgive the people who opposed them, but it’s pretty rich for him to speak of tolerance.

  • Scott Mortensen

    Yeah, well there is always someone that has it worse. Even if you’re starving, there is almost certainly someone on Earth that is currently on fire. Right? “At least you’re not on fire!” isn’t really an excuse for innaction over less pressing first-world issues.

    Though I’ll agree that leftists are taught the sumptuously ornate skill of turning everything into a suffering contest.

    “See… There is not justice for the Black man in this country… I should be at the front of the line.”

    “Yeah.. well, I’m GAY and subject to persecution and ridicule wherever I go.”

    “Women are oppressed all over the world… give it a rest!”

  • Scott Mortensen

    Most of these people aren’t gay. They’re mostly rhetoric spewing lefty pussy-whipped male-feminist types, utterly ashamed by the privileges society has bestowed upon them. I could write their posts as pure parody because I know what they believe before they say it.

  • Scott Mortensen

    If you think ‘Ender’s Game’ is relatively obscure, you would have to think the same thing about all books. There certainly aren’t many sci-fi novels that sell millions of copies.

    Though it may be in part my fault from when I was young and pushy, not many people I know in my age bracket have not read it.

    I’m a little curious about how many people here that have read it are going to support this boycott…? And did you like the book in the first place? Does your boycott apply only to the theatrical release? Are you going to veto your girlfriends netflix pick or change the channel if it comes on tv?

  • rabbitwithfangs

    *facepalm* Do you not understand the word ‘boycott’?

  • Scott Mortensen

    I would rather ostracize the guy for what he did to ‘Ultimate Iron Man’, but that was pretty much rhetconned away from memory immediately.

  • rabbitwithfangs

    Took the words out of my mouth! By this logic, we wouldn’t have had any superhero movies since ‘Batman & Robin’.

  • magruber

    “Geeks OUT appreciates that most American families work for every dollar and care deeply about where that money goes and what it supports.” That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read in my life. Most American Families? They don’t care what their money goes too. the percentage is very small. can guarantee you, 95% of the people going to this movie have zero clue about Orson Scott Cards homosexual views.

  • Archangel

    I doubt very much that the film is anti-gay or the book for that matter. But as someone who is gay I don’t want to give any money to a man who once said that being gay is a crime. If he truly felt sorry for his past actions he would reveal how much he has donated over the years to these hate groups and give the same amount of money to gay related charities. But we need to see that he is a homophobic bigot and in this day and age that should be looked down on. I am only glad Thor comes out the week after it will knock it out of the number one slot if it wins it.

  • Chuck777

    No one cared 3 years ago.

  • Chuck777

    So a warmongering, genocidal maniac & Someone who doesn’t like gay marriage and thinks anti-sodomy laws should be re-enacted are direct equivalents.

    I don’t agree with OSC but you’re drawing false parallels there.

  • Chuck777

    Actually a very large percentage of gasoline you put into your car comes from Canada, the USA and Mexico.

  • RussBurlingame

    That’s a preposterous comparison. Outside of those who live in major cities, most Americans need their vehicles in order to get to work and make a living. Comparably few have a legitimate NEED to see a movie.

  • RussBurlingame

    There is a total of ZERO people looking to abridge OSC’s free speech. If Card wants to be able to say what he wants regardless of whether it upsets people, and do what he wants with his money even if it’s bad for those around him, that’s his right as an American. But being famous doesn’t make his free speech freer than anyone else’s, and so by his own logic, these people are free to say what they want and to do what they want with their money.

  • RussBurlingame

    I’m not the guy you asked, but speaking to your last bit: yes.

    Now, I’ve never read the book and never will, but that didn’t start from an unwillingness to read Card. I was told it was genius, read the first bit and never could get into it. Donated it to the Salvation Army where, I learned later, Card would be right at home.

    As for the film, the cast might have won me over if I weren’t repulsed by the notion of a single thin dime of money I worked hard to earn going into the pockets of a hate group. I don’t care if it’s indirect, or after the fact, or whatever. I don’t care if that sounds vindictive to you. It’s my decision to make because that’s my money. And, yeah, that extends ad infinitum. I won’t watch this film on TV or stream it on Netflix, because anyone who deludes themselves into thinking, “If I didn’t donate to the opening weekend gross, I scored a point for truth, justice and the American way” is a ninny. If you want to see the film badly enough that your convictions don’t hold up against that pressure, just own it and go see the movie when you want to.

  • RussBurlingame

    I’m sorry, but that’s a stupid argument. He’s wrong that “plenty of us” do use our conscience when making everyday purchases because unethical companies and organizations are profitable?

    It doesn’t matter if he’s “seen the earnings for this year alone.” There certainly are plenty of people who vote their conscience with their dollars, and the original intimation (I can’t remember if it was you who made it or someone else) that it was a silly idea just goes to show that the speaker doesn’t “get it.”

    And, as I’ve mentioned above, nobody’s saying that Card can’t say what he wants and spend his money where he wants. All they’re saying is that Card being famous doesn’t make his speech any freer than theirs, and so they, too, should have the right to say what they want and spend money how they want.

  • RussBurlingame

    …Wait, Jim Parsons is funny? When did that happen?!

  • stephen

    Would Lionsgate still be standing by their man if Card had been in an antisemitic group?

  • Chris Bowen

    i also believe in the old adage “there’s no such thing as bad publicity”. this boycott is certainly giving Lionsgate plenty of free publicity, bet they wish they had that for the Punisher movie. still would’ve stunk the cinema out though (heh)

  • AJ

    I don’t know if it’s fake outrage but I do detect hypocrisy on the part of Geeks OUT. They label themselves as champions of creative freedom while taking a creator to task for his thought. They don’t want a creator to be paid for his work. Why? Because they hate him. Why do they hate him? Because he appears to hate them. Tit for tat, but apparently okay because they’re the ones doing it. And I sincerely doubt anyone in Geeks OUT gives a thought to American working families any day of the week – yet they suggest Lionsgate is acting cynicially. They want power over OSC and Lionsgate. Let’s see them drop the virtuous euphemisms.

  • AJ

    Yes, because earnings should be tied to virtue. Let’s start with you: have you ever told a lie? What, you told a lie? AND you want to be paid for your work?

  • AJ

    ” If however you agree with the idea that an artists statements should effect your view of their art, you can skip it.”

    When an artist makes a statement about their work, that’s relevant. What an artist believes outside their work is as irrelevant to the work as what they eat. Picasso was a member of the Communist Party. Does that justify a boycott of his work? Or should “champions of creative freedom” stand up for the right of an artist to be recompensed for his work, regardless of his politics?

    Geeks OUT wants to hurt OSC because he opposes equal recognition of the group with which they identify. He’s an enemy so they want to hurt him. Simple tribalism. Let’s not dignify it.

  • Rathbone

    Well said. It reminds me of “Little Britain’s” Matt Lucas’ character, Daffyd, the only gay in the Welsh Village. When another gay is found in the village, he is put out by not being “special”. Read this as, we’re equal and accepted, and because we’re equal and accepted (no longer “secial”, the LGBT fabricates outrage. I too am tired with this faux, evangelical outrage in a society that no longer (on the whole) have gender issues. Also, people have to accept the LGBT POV, and they are outraged by an alternate POV? WTF???? Get a life…

  • Jon Stone

    No, it will never end. People with a moral bone in their body will not stop being disgusted by other people’s bigotry, and will want to do something about it. As it should be. But note that the ‘do something about it’ here consists of a peaceful boycott, rather than lynching and persecuting people, which is what the bigots get up to when they’re in charge.

  • Vex Godglove

    So your argument is that because a lot of people shop at Walmart and eat at fast food restaurants, that means there are not a lot of people who choose not to?

    No one is silencing him or trying to ban his work. They are making their own free choices to not consume his products and asking other people to make the same choice is they wish.

  • Vex Godglove

    So then am I also hurting all the people who work on other films I choose not to see simply because they do interest me? Must I watch every film that is released because not doing so could possibly affect the people who worked on those films?

  • Vex Godglove

    Whether not it actually affects the bottom line is ultimately unimportant. What matters is the discussion is being had and a few more people are made aware of issues they may not previously have been. Boycotts and internet petitions may not change anything directly, but they raise awareness and awareness is the only thing that does lead to change.

  • Braam Saget

    Okay since you don’t seem to get it let me break it down for you. I never said that people can’t disagree with Card I disagree with Card but he should still be allowed to express his opinion. Free Speech isn’t just for the rich so say what you want and spend your money your way. my problem is I worked hard for my money and choose to see Enders Game and I get called Homophobic ,even though that is the furthest from the truth, Orson Scott Card is one man the organization he is a part of is made up of many people and boycotting a movie won’t bring it down it will still be there until the cause of there hatred is stopped which is ignorance.

  • Braam Saget

    If it was that I wouldn’t but the fact that people who want to see this movie are labeled Homophobic and hit with deluge of bullshit to dissuade them from seeing it is what I have problem with. I’m watching this movie not because I agree with Card, not because I am homophobic but because the book is pretty amazing and the fact you haven’t read it and are basically basing all this hate on the author is narrow minded. So stay behind your keyboard righting wrongs I’m going to be living.

  • Yusuf Alamo

    If those intolerant cry babies don’t want to go see ‘Ender’s game’, fine. No problem. I, like every other kid in America will probably see the movie and love it, too. Oh well!! Because I’m sure I’ll enjoy the movie even more without having to sit next to a bunch of intolerant whiners…

  • Kradeiz

    Thing is: I don’t put my earnings into associations that oppress other people.

  • truth

    Well I think its great someone has the balls to stand up to the gays in public. I am tired of seeing all the gay propaganda myself. Its like they want to make everyone turn gay as the new cool kid thing. Its cool to be gay. I dont think television or movies should show any propaganda toward any direction and that it should be of natural selection. I don’t mind gays but they shouldn’t force it down every ones throat. Rap turned hundreds of thousands of kids into brainwashed drug addicts that are addicted to money and shit. If all they see is a bunch of gay people on tv they will want to become gay. It is mental warfare on tv and media these days to see what agendas they can put into people mind sub consciously and its disgusting that they do this to the young people with under developed minds and people who are feeble minded. Its like they have 90 percent of America acting how they want via media outlets. They tell you how to be “cool” and “fit in” with suggestion and everyone just falls into it like little sheep. Mainstream media will ruin this country one day at a time like it has been for the last many years its been around. You can clearly check your history books for how propaganda was used to ensure outcomes during war times with citizens etc. If you truly don’t believe me your a complete idiot. You should go research some things. Check out MK ultra and think about how they feed adderal and shit to kids like candy now.

  • Dreamer

    This whole conversation discourages me. Yes, all people have a right to enjoy the same freedoms as everyone else. Regardless of race, religion, creed, etc.

    That is what the initial debate of the LGBT marriage issue was all about.

    That being said, my personal opinion is that to be LGBT is a way of life, a life choice, same as choosing one’s religion. It is NOT associated with race.

    As a way of life, and as we live in a free country that SHOULD not discriminate on the grounds of one’s freedom to practice their own way of life so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others, then within constitutional boundaries, the supreme court ruling on LGBT has stood it’s constitutional ground.

    Now, taking the court OUT of the issue, we go now to individual BELIEFS and OPPOSING ways of life. Mainly speaking, I refer to many religious organizations and beliefs. Just like LGBT advocates believe this way of life is correct, MANY religious organizations believe inherently that this is wrong. Similar (but not entirely equal to) Christians and Jews disagreeing on religious practices or Christians and Muslims disagreeing on religious practices.There CAN be a dialogue.

    Can you FORCE a Christian to accept Muslim practices? Can you FORCE a Jewish person to accept Christian practices? No, each religion, each way of life has the freedom to practice their own religion.

    There is an issue of respect. While Orson Scott Card has been a very strong and vocal advocate AGAINST LGBT, he still has a right to his own personal beliefs regardless of which side of the isle he stands on. I think most critics are upset primarily because of his Activism against LGBT. But many people have pushed it beyond his Activism and linked it to the very fabric of his own personal beliefs.

    I have seen this mirrored in many cases related to store owners or business owners who have been targeted for not serving people of LGBT practice because of their religious values.

    The true question for me then becomes, do you honor the beliefs of one group OVER the beliefs of another? In my opinion, Each group has the right to practice their beliefs and if one’s belief prohibits them from catering to another way of life, the have the right to abstain from crossing those boundaries. Similarly, if a service is denied to the other side, they have the right to not give the other side service or in other cases, they have the right to Boycott.

    What is NOT okay, is trashing anyone who does not AGREE with your belief or opinion. Someone can be totally ANTI-LGBT. (By this, I mean, not agreeing that this life practice is morally right.) Does that make them BAD? NO. Of course not! Does it make a non-christian bad for being Anti-Catholic? I.e. not believing that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior? Is it not WRONG to attack people for not jumping on the LGBT bandwagon?

    RESPECT is the name of the game here people. You want others to RESPECT your right to PRACTICE LGBT, than you must also RESPECT other people’s rights to PRACTICE their own ways of life that may be AGAINST LGBT. As long as RESPECT and PEACE are retained, there should NOT be an issue beyond that.

    That’s all I have to say.

  • Braam Saget

    ummm there is a difference bro you are not seeing the movie due to the author of the source material not the content. A review is based on the content not the author so yes I’m willing to read a review because they have actually seen the movie. you have not read the book and are clearly uninterested in the movie.

  • http://www.webstoodstupid.com/ XxxxxVicxxxxX

    No one is trying to stop him expressing his views,no matter how abhorrent they are,and this is certainly no Fake Outrage as you put it.The problem with Card is that he doesn’t just limit his stance to having an opinion,he openly protests gay marriage,encourages others to do so and raises money for groups opposing it.Please go and read some of his lengthy diatribes and you may start to understand.Also,freedom of speech does not apply to a person who advocates overthrowing a government for implementing a bill he is against-he is the opposite of someone who advocates freedom,he advocates tyranny against anyone who disagrees with him so why should we afford him the whole “freedom of speech” argument?
    There are so many links knocking about to his hateful posts that I’m not going to add more but please research him,the stuff he says is pretty offensive.All we are saying is “please don’t go see this movie”.You can take that or leave it,we’re not trying to force you into anything,we are not Orson Scott Card.

  • dswynne

    Yeah, especially since such things happen all the time. Wait, it doesn’t. Yeah, using straw man arguments to justify McCarthyism is fashionable these days, right?

  • abstraxus

    I find this incredibly sad. I ADORE the Ender books, there is such heart and empathy. I find it so strange that the same man that wrote those books (which in the later books preach tolerance of the unknown) could also be so callous when it comes to others sexualities.

    Y’know what though – it’s religion to blame – it’s the only thing i can see that i can blame this dichotomy on. Only these Holy Books that preach love with one hand and intolerance with the other.

    And it’s so sad… (and i say this as a heterosexual male), cos the quality of Enders Game should make this guy one of my heroes, but this aint the first belief he’s espoused that has alienate me

    but i can compartmentalize – i can love Orson Scott Cards work without loving the man.

  • dswynne

    Unless, of course, you’re trying to put Card in the poor house for having such views, then it’s okay. After all, it’s one thing for YOU to not patronize a business, but it’s another to guilt trip other people to go along with you.

  • 010101100010101110

    Well, actually, Picasso does suffer from his political affiliations, and his work is seen through that prism. If you don’t see it through that prism, you are actually not seeig Picasso’s works in their entirety.
    That said, yes, they would like to remind people that OSC is not a friend of theirs, and that if you are a friend of thiers you should not support his work.
    Then we can all decide whose friends we want to be. Do we watn to support OSC as an artist, because we think his work is worth supporting, or do we want to avoid it, because the man holds views we find abhorant, or do we perhaps not like his work and will simply avoid it fo that reason.
    It is perfectly legitimate to say, persons X holds belifes I didsagree with, and so I will not purchase their works. It is likewise perfectly legitimate to say, that company’s that support the works of those I find abhorant are likewise worthy of scorn.
    What’s not fair is to silence anothers right to voice such opposition, because you fear the power it has. THe reality is, if OSC’s work is good enough, like Picasso’s or Wagner’s many people will overlook their political affiliations and enjoy their art anyway, even seeing how the perspectives of their politics inform and communicate through the art, even if we disagree with it.
    The problem is, of course, if OSC is not Wagner nor Piccaso then he takes the risk when he exercises his free speech. Just as if my mechanic informed me of his poor opinion of homosexuals I likely would find a new mechanic, when a gentleman makes his opinion known, he risks offended others and experiencing a loss because of it. He has every right to state his belifes, but he can’t be shocked when the world doesn’t automatically fall in line with them, or take offense.
    If you don’t want to offend someone, keep your mouth shut, if you want to exercise your free speech, then accept that there is a risk in doing so. Don’t whine, because other people disagree with you.

  • 010101100010101110

    Fair enough, then why even be concerned about it? Let the chips fall where they may, and let people make their own choices. The issue here is not whether or not OSC has made statements that others find offensive, that some think that their taking offense and responding is unfair. That is false outrage.

  • 010101100010101110

    Ender’s game is relativly obscure in that it does not permiate the popular culture in a real way. As an example if you asked a random person what it’s about they likely don’t know, where as even if they never read Harry Potter, you likely know it’s about a boy wizard. It has a popularity and fan base, that’s why a studio took a chance on it. But it is no Spiderman to be certain. Because they can’t count on a generational interest in the product, every ticket counts. It is relativly (not the word relativly) obscure, meaning it si less well known than other products that could have been chosen for production, but was likely the most popular product in Lionsgate’s pricerange.

  • Johnny Sarcastic

    I just find the rationale behind this to be shaky, at best.

    I in no way endorse any group hating any other group (unless you’re hating a group for hating in the first place or something), but … there have been movies and media spinoffs made from works by authors with lousy opinions for years. I mean, nobody boycotts ‘Apocalypse Now,’ and that was based on ‘Heart of Darkness,’ which is a book that has racist epithets throughout. People argue that’s okay because the author didn’t really know better, but … well, isn’t that exactly what’s happening here? Heck, if we look back, I bet Shakespeare wasn’t crazy about lots of groups, and you could probably speculate that gay people were in that group. Bukowski was a chauvinist (and that’s a nice term for what he was) and yet his books are published constantly. Let’s all get together and boycott everything by everyone who wasn’t just as nice as pie forever and ever, because lord knows nobody ever learned anything from someone who had a crappy opinion about one or two things.

    This sounds like a bunch of overractive people reaching for attention, to me. To instigate a vocal boycott of a summer film is a waste of energy when there’s ACTUAL discrimination against ‘your people’ going on. I could understand if there was some vehement anti-gay message in the media itself, but there’s not going to be.

  • JozefAL

    As though NOM “gives a thought to American working families any day of the week?”
    What’s your point? The whole reason for an “interest group” of any sort is to promote the interest of that group. But the simple fact is that among those “American working families” you so blithely mention are GAY AND LESBIAN families–same-sex couples raising children, many in states where they have NO protections thanks to the likes of NOM and Card.
    But don’t let any of that get in the way of your little faux-outrage at Geeks OUT’s alleged hypocrisy. You’re showing enough hypocrisy yourself.

  • RussBurlingame

    I’m not moved by that argument. Leaving aside the hyperbole (he’s a wealthy man and unless he footed the bill for production this movie being a flop won’t make him poor), all you need to do is read the comments thread here to see that the other side is doing the same thing. “I wouldn’t be interested in this movie except I hates the fags too and so now I’ll see it twice” inevitably comes out in these conversations.

    Fun fact: I can also encourage people not to shop at Wal-Mart, not to vote for candidates I don’t like, not to eat meat (if I were into that kind of thing)…all of which have a potential impact on those actively involved in promoting the things I dislike. Part of free speech is considering the consequences of your speech and deciding it’s still worth saying.

    That’s also why Card is trying to be silent on these issues as much as he can right now.

  • RussBurlingame

    “Past” deeds assumes that he’s stopped, which is not clear. Additionally, a passive-aggressive “Don’t be sore winners–I want the money” statement is hardly magnanimous.

  • RussBurlingame

    Anyone who thinks you can “bring down” a movie with a $50 million marketing by telling people they shouldn’t see it is deluding themselves.

    I’ll be clear: I don’t think you’re homophobic, but I do know that you’re willing to hand money over to homophobes if it makes your life a little more convenient. That’s entirely your business and I think no less of you for it. The only reason I even know it is that you’ve said so–over and over and over again–in your comments here.

    I’m not willing, and many other people aren’t. Is it a pain in the ass to do the extra homework and to do your best to avoid doing business with bastards? Of course. Will I sometimes fail because I lack information, need something specific that I can’t get elsewhere, etc.? Probably so. But when i have the choice, and the knowledge, I choose to support artists, manufacturers and retailers whose money doesn’t go directly to things I abhor. You don’t like it, that’s fine. But pretending like it’s somehow odious behavior doesn’t make a lick of sense–especially when you’re asking me not to judge you for doing the opposite.

  • RussBurlingame

    I appreciate your attempt to communicate this clearly and without maligning people with whom you disagree.

    I do think that there’s a fundamental disconnect here, and you will never fully understand the people you’re asking these questions of, because you believe it to be a “lifestyle choice.” It’s a biological imperative, and ignoring or trying to go against it generally has catastrophic results for someone’s mental well-being. It’s different from taking on a religious or political system of beliefs, in that those things are nurture, not nature.

    You can go on not believing that, but you have to understand that the people you’re talking with are coming from that as a starting point and as long as sexual orientation is treated like its opponents as equivalent to picking the color of shirt you’ll wear, there will never be a serious discussion on the issues because, to supporters of equality under the law, this biological imperative is as impossible to truly escape as is one’s race.

  • RussBurlingame

    Fun fact: There is a 100% correlation between people whose handle is “truth” on the Internet and people who are crazed conspiracy theorists.

  • RussBurlingame

    THIS.

    No, seriously. Far too often I hear the “Well, there are more important things that need attending to first” argument. But you have to let people decide what is important to them. A family who lose a brother or a son to suicide because he was bullied and harassed due to his sexuality will put a higher premium on that issue than they do on curing a disease they’ve never heard of, even if more people are ultimately at risk because of the disease. Superman and Batman could do better putting their intellect and money to use fixing the world’s problems to make for a more just place where conflict is less necessary, but they see the injustice on the ground and they feel they can’t justify waiting the months or years it would take for large-scale changes to be applied in the real world.

    Just because it’s not important to you doesn’t mean that the people to whom it is important are mean-spirited, misguided or wrong.

  • Braam Saget

    It’s not odious behavior to spend your money wherever and on whatever you want it’s your right. I agree with you on most especially knowing where your money goes and yes by me choosing to see Enders Game I am giving money to someone who’s views stand directly opposed mine and yes I completely see hypocrisy in this.

  • RussBurlingame

    I think hypocrisy is too strong. Calling someone a hypocrite because they make cost/benefit judgments in their own personal life is the kind of thing that spoiled bastards who have the money and time never to make those kinds of decisions do. I knew a lot of those guys in college, and while they might jump on your case that’s not my bag. I was just frustrated with certain elements of your argument.

    At the end of the day, a big part of it for me is pragmatism. I am a political animal and I put work and money into causes I believe in. If I then donate to the other side, it negates my own contributions.

    I know people who say things like, “I’ll see this movie and then donate that $12 to an LGBT charity after the fact,” and all I can think is, “Man, $25 is a lot to see a movie, unless I’m really damned excited for it.”

  • Braam Saget

    Fair enough bro.

  • Hyperion

    Hitler was against the equalty of the jews, so he stole all their rights until they were considered as second class humans and finally, things. The rights we share is what makes all us humans, and OSC just used the same methods of nazis (lies and caricature) to hurt people that he fanatically dislikes. It’s not a opinion, it’s just walking backwards and telling people that the color of your skin or being a woman is a reason enough not to be allowed on a bus because you don’t care about them, because they’re less human than you, because you’re a chosen by a god you made up.

    About the novel, I didn’t like it ( “The Last Starfighter”, a year before, was the same without nonsensycal and disturbing tortured children) and I don’t care about the movie. The story seemed to be about how the State can steal your life, lie and make you suffer because the State is always right. Maybe a religious metaphore about god kicking your ass for no reason and telling at the end that everything was right, even if it could have been done in hundreds of different less painful ways. Not a homophobe or homophilic story, just a brain washing one.

  • Leo Vader

    Saying gay people define themselves by their sexuality is incredibly ignorant and offensive. Just so you know for future human interactions.

  • Leo Vader

    You should seriously think about how crazy you sound to people.

  • Kenneth Taylor

    What this is, is extortion. Its right there where they ask for a benefit premiere. All Lions Gate has to do is throw a few bucks to them, and watch them go away.

  • Opus

    You are exactly right. I am forma a country that is although tolerant to them, not accepting of homosexuality. During one of their bouts of crying about their perceived oppressed position, one litterary went from room to room in a famous student dorm, like, he is there to meet the students and all he was saying were how he is gay and he is gay an nauseam.One of my friends was unlucky to heve meet bunch of them through her psiychology and social studies work and basiccaly confirms what you said.

  • Opus

    It may be, but unfdortunately it is true. They are themselves saying theat they are homosexual first, humans second. Go check out their activists vwebsites, it is a constant theme to their rantings – in bbetween propaganda of open relationshipsa and instructions on hooking up in unsavory places.

  • http://www.spinoffonline.com Kevin Melrose

    The group didn’t ask for a benefit premiere; Lionsgate said it would hold one.

  • Vinnie

    I really want to see this movie though…

  • brownbear34

    I think boycotting the art of an artist, because of the artist’s own personal views is stupid. I enjoy the art, not the artist. Do people really have no idea how many pieces of art they enjoy/consume from people that they disagree with? I mean it’s like all of the hardcore conservatives in this country boycotting most of the movies and television from hollywood because majority of hollywood is pretty liberal. It’s a ludicrous idea. I could understand the boycott if said art contained the disagreed with messages /thoughts of the artist, but if they are not at all similar, then why would they care? I have always considered myself a supporter of gay rights and civil union equality for all people, and I certainly don’t agree with Card’s comments. That being said, that won’t stop me from watching the movie version of one of my all-time favorite books and I refuse to feel guilty for doing so.

  • Alex W

    I hope they know this boycott is just giving this movie more publicity.

  • Chris Bowen

    Actually Leo, what is incredibly ignorant and offensive is making snotty self righteous comments on a message board. read my original post again. it is not derisory nor judgmental. might i suggest that you may wish to interact more with people face to face instead of invoking the wrath of innocent participants while hiding behind the protection of the computer screen!!

  • psychicreporter

    In that case, he wouldn’t have been in this position to begin with. Of course, rather than neither bigotry being taken seriously, it would be best if both were.

  • psychicreporter

    Of course, Geeks OUT aims to increase the percentage that do know regardless of what it is at the moment. I’m sure Lionsgate doesn’t want the needle going even half a percentage point in the wrong direction.

  • Alex W

    The hypocrisy is that he wants gay people to be treated less than human and actively tries to make it so, and then asks for “tolerance” of his own beliefs.

  • psychicreporter

    Are you saying a homosexual hasn’t been targeted and physically attacked by a bigot in 60 years? And are you also saying that information about human behavior that happened more than 60 years ago is irrelevant to knowing about contemporary human behavior? Because if that’s the case, we’d essentially have to discard just about all of human history when trying to figure out what we’re like.

  • A.c. Nail

    Fascists attacking fascists. I wish we were all asexual or hermaphrodites

  • psychicreporter

    Well, Card’s own “cramming of viewpoints down throats” dates back at least 25 years so “these groups shouting” is most certainly descriptive of the anti-gay National Organization for Marriage. As for the message of the two opposing sides, are you really more offended by someone saying “Treat me fairly” than you are by someone saying “Treat them unfairly”?

  • psychicreporter

    What’s a little discrimination as long as there’s no genocide? People get so touchy about the most trivial things. I’m going to go take a crap on my neighbors porch now. (I’ll let you know if he whines like a little baby.)

  • psychicreporter

    I don’t think this is a good example of Godwin’s law. SR didn’t keep arguing until he got so excited he called someone a Nazi. He’s actually making a legitimate point and putting bigotry and discrimination in a historical context. He could have been just as well to use General Francisco Franco since he was talking about official state-sanctioned discrimination against gays that turned ugly in history. It’s not an ad hominen use to try and discredit someone he was debating. In fact, I’d be interested to hear what Card has to say about the homosexuals who were slaughtered under both the Nazi regime and the Franco dictatorship. For instance, how does he feel about a fellow (and far superior) writer, Garcia Lorca, being executed by firing squad in Grenada in 1936 because he was “effeminate”?

  • psychicreporter

    Holy crap! Where do you gaping fools come from? How do you possibly perpetuate yourself with such incredibly low self-esteem that everything is a threat. Queers want equal rights! Run for the hills! Here come the queers like a tsunami to destroy everything in their diabolical plan to get treated fairly! The queers won’t even passively sit on their hands while some hack paperback writer preaches from behind the veil of his cult about a medieval hierarchical class system that sticks their queer asses at the bottom! Uppity Queers vs. A Dimwit the Likes of Opus and every other little dick 8th grade dropout in this thread trying to pretend to the world he can manage critical thinking beyond opening a door he intends to walk through. You’re all the kind of super studs who in “real life” wait until you have four friends around you to start running your big mouth with all of these enlightened opinions of yours. Otherwise you’re just as meek as the sissies you imagine are ruining everything around you.
    Okay, that’s my collective response to all the Opus’ posting here lest I waste all morning. Opus is as Opus does.

  • psychicreporter

    Ender’s Game is the most boring book I’ve ever read to the last page. I’ve read worse but I didn’t finish them. For some reason I thought this 200 page long sleeping pill would have some trick up its sleeve. It did not. Just plain boring.

  • Leo Vader

    I’m sorry it came across that way. In fact I agreed with most of your comment. All I said/meant was that you seemed to not realize how your last statement would sound to gay people and I’d like to make sure you don’t say it in real life. Also I love making sNoTtY comments on the internet and hiding behind a computer screen!!!!! You nailed that part (:<

  • Leo Vader

    Entirely valid. No argument here.

  • twincast

    Apparently you have no idea what MyCarthyism was. No surprise there.

  • Johnny Sarcastic

    Well, by virtue of a boycott are they not demanding some measure of compensation? The concept of a boycott is a negative one to a business (potentially hurting profits) so they have to do something to minimize damage and ensure both profitability and general goodwill. That response is measured and dictated by common sense.

    Obviously the response they wanted was not, “Yeah, we know the guy hates gays but we don’t, and we’ll say it publicly.” They also obviously know that no company is going to tank a movie this big after sinking all the money into it, so that’s not what they’re angling at. They want SOMETHING; It’s just naïveté to think otherwise.

    Personally, I feel as if this is less about an actual cause and more about attention.

    Also, before anyone jumps on me for saying ‘they’ repeatedly – I was not referring to the sexualities, I was referring to those doing the boycotting.

  • Johnny Sarcastic

    Pretty sure the movie ‘Ender’s Game’ on it’s own isn’t going to cause a homosexual to be physically attacked.

    Although, the boycott might. People have done dumber things for worse reasons.

  • twincast

    Well, depending on the contract, he likely stands to get much more if the movie is a success.

  • twincast

    Well, obviously everyone *should* at least somewhat keep track of it and not support any of the above. And if not inform yourself, at least react appropriately to reliable information others give you (and qualm your desire for certain brands of chicken for instance). Still, if you barely make ends meet, you get a free pass from me for buying the cheapest grocery you can find regardless of anything. Getting to watch a movie is not the same thing in any way, shape or form.

  • twincast

    A studio can only make and release so many films a year. Same for the amount of flashy blockbusters vs. artsy-esque films. They’d simply go for something else and hopefully wouldn’t make a deal with a monster again. The effect (lower budgets) would be minimal in the short term and nonexistent in the long run.

  • twincast

    Liberals: You can’t engage in hate speech or use words perceived as derogatory in general (the latter being too extreme a point when applied literally).

    Conservatives: You can’t discuss at all certain people and/or things that do and/or did exist or use “dirty” words (i.e. euphemistically-called “swear words”).

    People in mainstream media also apply at least the latter of both sides’ limitations and liberals pathologically afraid of offending anyone also apply at least to a degree the former of the conservative limitations, which ironically hampers their efforts.

    I know which interpretation of free speech I agree with.

    On a side note, one’s right to an opinion is supposed to prevent prosecution for thought crimes, it does not make every opinion equally valid, let alone true. We may live in a morally grey world, but not all of it is the same shade.

  • Vex Godglove

    Actually, I have read it and it is a good book. I am not hating on anything or anyone. I have never said a bad thing about the book or the film (which none of us have seen). I don’t hate Card for his beliefs, I just think they are stupid and harmful to others. I also do not hate anyone for seeing the film if they choose. Disagreeing with someone’s decision and voicing that disagreement are not the same as hating the person.

  • Opus

    YOu know, that this post says more about you.

    Is homosexual marriage threat to traditional marriage. yes.

    I am not running for the hills, nor do I need four pals to back me up. In the line of work I do, I rather, if I can avoid it, go alone to more dangerous situations.

    Also, if I did not shut my mouth threathened by knife ( twice ), a gun ( once ), thrown in fornt of a speeding car, or car actually in flames, I certainly would not do it for anonymous internet bully.

    Homosexuals have rights to education and employement and health protection. I have no beef – as I gather you would say – with that. Also, as is my job from time to time, I would stand for those how were denied any of that.

    I have a problem with attacks on traditional family values, and destroying a livelihood of people, who stand for it, by the homosexual activists.

    Are you in understanding now?

  • psychicreporter

    Yes, I understand. You’re an idiot. To be clear: YOU ARE UNINTELLIGENT. Yes, I understand. I get it. And the shame of it is that dumb assholes like you get to actually influence the world around you and oppress people who are most likely infinitely more viable and good people than you. Now go sprint empty-handed into a knife fight you genius.

  • Opus

    I do not know how it is in America, but in old Europe, social and welfare services, usually go on the field unarmed. Thank you, I would rather be dumb and unintelligent, if opposite meant being like yourself.

    Also, thank you – I try to influence people around me, and if I succed, I chalk it up to my common sense, and traditional values, mostly christian, to which I was brought up.

    Also, of note, Orson Scott Card is surely more viable and good than either of us two. Well, why you be trying to oppress him, huh? Surely he, at least, did more for SF, Fantasy and Horror than any homosexual author* I know of, and unlike them is not better known for his ”escapades”.

    *The biggest contribution to said fields by homosexual is Vathek, but I do not suppose you know what that is, or would even read it, though 100 pages long, since I see you do not have long attention span nor know much about literature.

  • Georgina Quiñones

    ok tell me how come Batman costume is not ridiculous, a grown men dress as a bat? Or Superman that flies around in a skin tight suit with a red cape. Wonder Woman’s story is one of the most fascinating stories of DC comics. Thor story is unrealistic, and yet Marvel manage to bring it along to be part of one of the most grossly movies off all times and why because mystical sales, look at 300, look at Harry Potter does stories are mystical and they sell. a kick ass Wonder Woman movie will make hollywood billions of dollars. Is your opinion and I respected but you are missing the big picture here.

  • nlcatter

    enders game – steals from independence day and starship troopers

    so BORING!

  • Scott Mortensen

    Well, Harry Potter is the Mcdonalds of literature. It’s popular for the same reason Budweiser is ‘the king of beer’ so that isn’t a very compelling argument. I’d be more concerned with seeing a good movie about a female superhero as opposed to one that makes a billion dollars, which Wonder Woman would never, ever do. And not because of some latent sexism in the movie going public, but because she just isn’t a very cool character. Batman’s costume is ridiculous, they all are, but Batmans costume has the distinction of also being pretty -cool- and that can carry you pretty far. Like 75 years and counting.
    Thor tried to jettison a lot of the magical elements and made the Asgardians immortal interdimensional aliens. There is really no other way to put it. I can’t see that working with Amazons.

    I’m surprised Wonder Woman can even carry her own ongoing book, let alone a 200 million dollar blockbuster film. But Joss Whedon would disagree with me, and he’ll have a lot of hollywood clout after his two Avengers movies, so maybe he’ll get a writer like Gail Simone and prove me wrong.

  • Scott Mortensen

    It’s the very definition of Godwin’s Law, it’s unrelated hyperbole designed to shut down discussion as opposed to encouraging it. Because who wants to agree with the nazis, right?
    Card is following a party line derived from his ingrained religious views, *he* didn’t make them up, and frankly, his views are wrong and potentially harmful. But he needed to (and did) admit defeat on the issue, especially in regards to anti-sodomy laws, because lets face it, in this day and age, people are tolerant of a lot weirder things than being attracted to members of the same sex. That almost seems quaint.
    The actions of Ender in the following books, and specifically his founding of the ‘Speakers for the Dead’, who were essentially anti-religious in their metaphysical approach to revealing the truth, make it hard to argue that Orson Scott Card was advocating what the State did to Ender, the other children, and ultimately the Buggers.

    Ender was the protagonist, and I can’t imagine anyones sympathies when reading about his trials were with the State, as opposed to with Ender.

  • Scott Mortensen

    I don’t have the energy to get offended either way, because I live in the real world and have to deal, in cordial, civilized terms, with people I disagreee with on a daily basis. You should hear some of the nonsense my boss believes.

  • Scott Mortensen

    Agreed. Anyone that has known a gay person since their formative teenage or even childhood years would never think they had a choice in the matter, or that they would choose it in the first place given societies, and especially other young peoples, marginalization of their non-hetero sexuality. It seems like who other people are attracted to should be a non-issue. I like chubby girls, tell me I’m wrong. It still won’t change it.

  • Scott Mortensen

    Well, there appears to be some incongruity between us, since I stayed up all night to finish it and wound up missing school.
    I see two possible explanations for our differing opinions on the same work. Perhaps we are two truly unique individuals with differing tastes, aesthetic principles and histories with the science fiction medium.
    Or perhaps your head is so far up your ass that you can’t read anything.

  • Scott Mortensen

    He must have had a time machine to steal from Independence Day (and not his relativistic ships) given that the original short story is from 1977 and the book is from 1985. He stole from Heinlin in the sense that it’s social fiction, and most ‘soft’ science fiction owes Heinlin a debt, unless you believe Heinlin invented bug-like alien species or proto-fascist future governments.
    Also, this may sound blasphemous, but the exploration of what it means to operate as a hive mind and then meet a race of billions of true individuals, as explored in ‘Xenocide’, makes Heinlins faceless commie analogues seem pretty childish.

  • Scott Mortensen

    http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/2013-06-09/mass-market-paperback/list.html
    Your boycott didn’t keep a 28 year old novel from going back to #1 on the best sellers list, but do you think the free publicity may have actually helped? I was going to call the internet-only-activism useless, but something being counter-productive can still be useful, just not in regards to your side of the argument.

  • Scott Mortensen

    http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/2013-06-09/mass-market-paperback/list.html

    Your boycott didn’t keep a 28 year old novel from going back to #1 on the best sellers list, and remaining on the list today at #3. But do you think the free publicity may have actually helped?

  • Scott Mortensen

    At this stage in my life, I think art should supersede politics. It’s become far more important to our daily lives. I’m not above reading the collected thoughts of the worst monster in the world, frankly. And you’re sheltering yourself in a comfortable clique if you’re only listening to the people you already agree with.

  • RyanTee82

    Never heard that response before. That’s a new one.

  • Ron Allen

    Convenient. Righteous indignation is now based on “need”. “Pump all the gas you want from that despotic regime, but no way in hell are we going to that flick based on a book written by that homophobe!

    bet you don’t even realize how week that sounds…nor how many classic works of literature, art, music, and film were inspired or created by some despicable human beings.

    Now, please run off and start throwing out all your books, video games, DVD’s and music.

  • Ron Allen

    I can’t wait until we apply this standard to EVERY artist, author, musician, video game maker, food seller, clothing designer, shop owner, CEO, auto-maker (Hellooooo Ford!), and on down the list.

    Get against THE WALL!!!

  • Ron Allen

    Better start researching EVERY artist, author, musician, video game maker, food seller, clothing designer, shop owner, CEO, auto-maker (Hellooooo Ford!) and so on…

    …you won’t like what you find. This is just the usual outrage du jour because the movie has hit the screen.

    You don’t see many people chucking their I-phones into a Bonfire.

    Card may vehemently oppose gay marriage, but at least he’s not hiding behind a blanket of hypocrisy.

  • Ron Allen

    Actually, there are people who do, in fact, choose to be gay, or at least, engage in homosexual acts.

    It’s not as simple as black and white. I’ve known several women who were heterosexual, and are now living a gay lifestyle after a series of traumatic incidents with men.

    There are situational factors too. Experimentation and even being in environments where choices are limited (prison) where people will have gay sex, but then stop when they have more choices.

    I also know gay people who can’t recall ever being attracted to a member of the opposite sex.

    Trouble is, far too many people have very little knowledge of the diversity that is “human sexuality”.

  • RussBurlingame

    Dude, saying the same thing a dozen different ways all across the comments doesn’t make it right. It makes it SPAM.

    The bizarre, black-and-white reality you seem to inhabit where nobody can make a moral judgment for themselves and they must be compelled to an all-or-nothing stance where boycotting one artist for one reason means boycotting every artist for every conceivable reason is a silly strawman argument.

    The point on oil is somewhat more compelling, and it’s well-taken, but basing life decisions on economic need isn’t “convenient.” It’s what people do every day.

    And if you’re as intelligent as you’re trying to sound here, you know both of those things and are just lashing out at people who disagree with you. If you don’t understand them, I can’t help you.

    Anyway, flame away since you can’t seem to help yourself. This is all I can contribute to the conversation without losing my will to be polite.

  • Ron Allen

    Plenty of religious people are tolerant and accepting of gays and/or same-sex marriage.

    One prejudice that seems to persist and is facilitated by the media and culture at large are that RELIGIOUS folk are some sort of hive-mind that all believe the same thing. It’s a bigotry that is allowed to persist and yet no one takes much of an issue with it.

    If you say Blacks or Gays or Women are ALL THE SAME, there’s hell to pay, but take the same approach with people of faith and it’s game on!

    It’s rubbish. Outside of the core belief in a GOD, the adherence to dogma runs the gamut.

  • Scott Mortensen

    I can agree with that. Sexuality is fluid enough that the activists deeply involved in the issue have added substantially more letters to the ‘LGBT’ initialism, mostly it seems to quell liberal guilt, rather than to be inclusive. Because I doubt the gay people think asexuality has any equivalence to their tenets and treatment, whereas intersex people have a point of contention that goes down to a biological level in their very chromosomes.
    At a certain point it gets ridiculous though, and not every issue of gender identity or sexual preferences are necessarily compatible with eachother. But tolerance *should* be the figurative norm, because frankly, these issues aren’t terribly important. I just can’t understand why anyone else would care who someone likes to f%ck or form an emotional bond with.

    Too little love in this world to condemn a form this innocent.
    And for a thread update, I have pretty mixed feelings about the movie. The book takes place primarily in Enders head, he would have to narrate the entire thing to keep it from becoming just a montage of the big action sequences. But on the other hand, those were very satisfying to see on the big screen.
    Not a big hit financially, but it was fun to see it in a mostly empty theater because the new Thor had just opened.
    Maybe it’s for the best, becaue I just can’t imagine ‘Speaker for the Dead’ being done in this movies universe. It’s just way too different.

  • Ron Allen

    Typical. Hurl insults without really addressing the main point of what I’ve written.

    It’s not a strawman argument at all, it’s that, for me, hypocrisy is as annoying and dangerous as homophobia – even more so I’d say. It is running amok on this thread and in society. This BS “taking a stand” over a movie while at the same time being complicit in lining the pockets or supporting far more dangerous people, governments, and/or corporations than a homophobic Mormon sci-fi writer.

    Rationalize it any way ya like. It still..is. Break out that I-phone and ignore the near-zero wages, the suicides, and the Human Rights violations of the manufacturer of that phone. Selective “outrage” indeed.

    And if you really did read ALL my comments (thank you), perhaps you missed the one on human sexuality where I implicitly state that human sexuality is most certainly NOT Black and white so…

    …you’ve no idea what world I inhabit.

  • RussBurlingame

    LOL