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Bryan Singer: It’s ‘Ludicrous’ To Compare Fox’s X-Men and Marvel’s Avengers


SciFiNow has posted an interview with “X-Men: Days of Future Past” director Bryan Singer, who states it’s “not healthy” for people to compare Fox’s X-Men franchise to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

“They’re both comic books and at some point you can expand the universes, that’s where the comparison ends,” Singer told SciFiNow. “It sounds defensive, and it is defensive, but only because people make comparisons between [X-Men: Days of Future Past] and The Avengers, which is ludicrous. The Avengers is a mash-up of massive single character franchises of incredibly familiar characters and Iron Man. And did I mention Iron Man? Oh, and by the way – Iron Man. They are huge, colossal franchises that are peppered with all these other characters that are, again, extremely famous and so yes, Fox will at some point synergize [the X-Men] characters and that process is slowly beginning, but it’s very different than taking movies that gross close to a billion dollars and then pushing them together into these giant broad movies. If you want to give me Robert Downey Jr. in a metal suit and have him join the X-Men, then yes, let’s go head-to-head [with Marvel Studios].”

Fox’s X-Men was one of the first successful modern superhero films, predating Sam Raimi’s first Spider-Man film by two years. While Fox’s X-Men franchise started strong — the first film grossed $157.3 million, which grew until 2006’s X-Men: The Last Stand‘s $234.4 million gross — it started sinking in 2009 with the critically panned X-Men Origins: Wolverine — a trend which continued for X-Men: First Class and The Wolverine. While Singer’s (who has withdrawn from most Days of Future Past promotion due to ongoing accusations of sexual abuse) assertion that a comparison to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Fox’s X-Men franchise are unwarranted may be valid, they certainly share an audience — and it’s perhaps telling that lifetime domestic gross for the X-Men franchise started sinking after the debut of Iron Man in 2008.

That said, analysts currently predict that Days of Future Past will bring in more than $100 million for its opening weekend, which has the potential to be the franchise’s highest-grossing opening in its history. (X-Men: The Last Stand grossed $102.7 million for its opening weekend — also during Memorial Day.)

X-Men: Days of Future Past opens Friday.


  • Zarathos No Daimaōh

    Avengers is a mash-up of massive single character franchises of
    incredibly familiar characters and Iron Man.”

    Being incredibly
    disingenuous there … All of them individually were known in the public
    and outside of geekdom , but not really as much as the X-men at their
    peak . You too had the money and multiple blockbuster to do better …
    and you had massive successes anyway … it’s your fault if you wanna
    pimp Wolverine at each turn instead . You could have done more justice
    to other chars and then have your own solo “iron man” equivalent and
    keep building up from there .

    You might have had an already popular Gambit charming a crowd among other things …
    And give people a less grounded and “realistic” experience , even with the sfx of the time

    Hell on another subject , Singer , had the ultimate pop culture icon , Superman , aside from Batman , and failed . So no i dont buy his “give me iron man and i’ll do better too” routine

  • Jordan

    Fox had 15 years to get their shit together and they clearly haven’t. This entire statement by Bryan Singer is nothing more than a temper tantrum.

  • Manuel J Maura

    I hate that Singer has so little respect for his property that he doesn’t see the value in his characters… Wolverine was more popular than Iron Man or Thor combined… And that is JUST Wolverine. Throw in all the other X-men characters such as Magneto, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Ice-man, Juggernaut, and you could easily have accomplished what Marvel did with Iron Man, Thor and Captain America…
    The reason his movies don’t do as well is because he doesn’t put the proper attention to his fans and make the characters better protrayed to their comic-book counterpart.
    Learn to do shit right Fox, learn how to make movies.

  • AntiWhiteKnight

    I hate that Singer rapes boys. That is reason enough for people to skip this film. But sadly, they won’t.

  • steven

    Singer’s storylines fall flat in the 3rd act. He tries to wrap them up with this pregnant-moment but it’s just not significant enough to do more than roll over and sleep.

    What the Avengers have done that is successful is this larger narrative from the start, each building to a larger film. Bigger and bigger doesn’t mean more and more and more. X-Men Last Stand was horribly choppy and crowded. If you’re going to do a dark phoenix story, make the world/universe bigger. Everything singer does, save X2, just feels small, despite his effort to make it sweepingly large.

    There was a kernel of right with First Class.. Though it should have been the actual first class. Backstepping and adding anachronisms in the continuity just is bad production. Having production license doesn’t mean you should take license with the history that’s been established. Sure, there’s a need to add characters that are new and interesting, but damnit, stick with an era! Keep true to some universe. Now we’ve got Days of Future Past changing up all the past of the movies.

    It’s time for a reboot with a fresh director who has read the books. It’s a shame Whedon couldn’t do X-Men. His run on Astonishing X-Men was FANTASTIC! He did it right. Singer’s just a poor movie-maker.

  • James D

    Singer only did X1-2…and they were both well done. If he continued he could of done something big but you are right, he was a fool and left. However, days of future past is getting amazing reviews and scoring higher than even Cap 2. So get ready, X-men is back.

  • Brown4eva

    FOx clearly has no intentions of making this franchise any better or greater than what it has become by force of will to continue to want to be in bed with Singer!! XMen : FIRst Class was a fresh take on the ailing franchise and distance itself from the mess that was Singers and Ratners nightmare in Xmen 3!! Same as Superman Returns was Ratners and than Singers mess!! Why on earth the director of First Class decided to leave is beyond me but something tells me money !! During which time instantly Fox announces Singer back in the fold !! You can see his paws all over the movie in the trailers from the gawdly dark outfits and lifeless images !! No where near the pop and realism First Class gave us! I’ll reserve my full wrath until I see it be me thinks after Xmen 2 Singer ran out of juice !!

  • KryptosXLayer2

    “If you want to give me Robert Downey Jr. in a metal suit and have him join the X-Men, then yes, let’s go head-to-head [with Marvel Studios].”

    RIGHT THERE proves how little you know about the Marvel Universe – when in the comics did Iron Man join the X-Men? Do you even care about the source material or are you just satisfied with collecting a check every 2 years making CRAP movies and RUINING the franchise??? Hurry up and die, Singer, seriously, I’m sick of it

  • Zarathos No Daimaōh

    The way he exagerates Iron Man’s importance , examplify the very core issues and flaws in his movies . That kind of outburst , besides obvious petty jealousy and envy , shows the damage he’d do to an Avengers movie . Instead of an ensemble cast where everyone shines , he’d do some Iron Man and his sidekicks movie . And probably have Steve and Tony be love rivals in a triangle involving Black Widow lol

  • Zarathos No Daimaōh

    He isnt a poor movie maker . And Days looks good , all thing considered , at least in the sfx and action department , despite his mouth diarrhea . I’ll never find his vision appealing , as it rubs me the wrong way , and as i never felt he ever even tried to portray a team heroes … only loose individual in leather duking it out …

    But that part is also a product of its era and hollywood’s usual fears when it comes to serious adaptations … not incompetence . There is even a Claremont interview , when it’s alluded that Singer does know the original materiel , but made his picks with the outlook of a movie mogul . Without ill intentioned yet visually impressive Xmen and spiderman movies to pave the way , there’d less chance for other movies to proves them wrong .

  • Seriously

    One pathetic failed actor who has been caught in court trying to bribe people to lie for him says some bullshit and you believe him? Why?

  • AntiWhiteKnight

    The fact that Singer fucks young boys is an open secret in Los Angeles, pal. Seriously, the stuff we heard about the Superman returns set was vile. Coke and fresh young boys everywhere. This is like a known thing here in town.

  • Mando44646

    Is he supposed to be poking fun at Iron Man being so big in the MCU? Because Wolverine is just about the most overused hero in superhero movies by this point. Hugh Jackman is great. But Wolverine doesnt need to do *everything ever*

  • SingerSemen

    He is a dirt pig!

  • John Smith

    He choked by killing cyclops, jean grey, professor x. He had ZERO respect 4 the source material even the costumes were horrible. I will not waste any time watching anymore xmen films till marvel reclaims the property and does the whole thing over again. I mean seriously they killed cyclops…WTF?

  • Zaki Hasan

    Except that he didn’t do any of that. All of those happened in THE LAST STAND, a movie he had nothing to do with.

  • JusticeBringer

    As Zaki noted, Singer didn’t do X3. Cyclops got killed because the actor was busy doing Superman Returns with Singer. Both Xavier and Jean Grey have died in the X-Men books. Nothing new there. It was also made clear that Xavier wouldn’t be staying dead anyways.

  • Ozymandas

    Well at least he knows where the X-Men stand. :)

  • Manus278

    what an

  • Fassbender

    James Marsden’s Cyclops was barely alive in X-Men. In X2 he’s a walking zombie in terms of characterization. And in X3 he was killed.

    The one to blame here is Singer because he neglected Cyclops. And only focused on his boy toy Jackman.

  • Markymark

    Umm yeah its an open secret that he likes young men of LEGAL age. There’s no proof whatsoever so far that A. He regularly sleeps with underage boys and/or B. That he rapes them. But whatever, I know there’s no use trying to change your mind.

  • coren

    X-Men First Class made more money than the original and was pretty well received all around – not sure where this article is coming from in regards to it being on a downward trend.

  • Zagreus

    It’s kind of funny, because Iron Man was never huge in the comics until the Iron Man movie. Many of the X-men had him beat in popularity (Wolverine, Storm, for sure, probably Jean Grey, Cyclops, Nightcrawler and Colossus as well). It was the poorly made X-men movies that screwed themselves over. X3 was crap. X-men orgins: Wolverine was crap mixed with vomit.

    Singer, when he made Superman Returns was crowing about how he never read Superman comics. He probably didn’t read too many X-men comics either. If you don’t know the source material, you shouldn’t be making these movies. Pretty fucking simple.

  • Zagreus

    Absolutely! They missed their chance and now he’s crying about it.. Boo hoo I don’t have Iron Man. Iron Man was never a big name until they made him a big name. Hell, Singer could have made friggin… I don’t know, ICEMAN a big name. Just believe in the source material, write a good story, cast it well, etc. Nobody was clamoring for an Iron Man movie before they made one. NOBODY! Now Iron Man is right up there with Batman, or damn near.

  • unsean

    i agree with your latter point. Though if only people who were familiar with the source material were making superhero movies, then you could count your directors on one hand.

    One finger, in fact: Joss Whedon.

    That’s it because other than him, that’s it. Not Christopher Nolan, not Joel Schumacher, not Bryan Singer, not Brett Ratner, nobody but Whedon.

  • Carlos Oliveros

    Ion Man is Iron Man only because Marvel Studios made him that big. Wolverine has been as big as Iron Man on the comics for decades, it’s Fox/Singer who have been uncapable of properly developing all these characters. Besides, “that process is slowly beginning”? It’s been almost 15 years since the 1st X-men movie was released, man, don’t be ridiculous. Marvel Studios had a plan, Fox never cared. End of story.

  • Sparticus_Prime

    First Class was a great movie…. Far far better than Last Stand or Origins put together. It had its own faults but it was still far better received than the other 2 I mentioned. The WolverineIis a good movie but I’ve had enough of him being pushed up front.

  • Richard Casey

    Yeah, EVERYONE always knew these characters…. oh, wait, no, that’s the exact oposite. Fox have SERIOUSLY dropped the ball with their franchises, they had the exact same hurdles when X-men came out, but instead of trying to develop the franchise, they just took the one character people DID know and made every fucking film about that character. They could have done SO MUCH with the Xverse, instead they’ve just produced a series of diminishing returns. Honestly, i have to be REALLY careful about what I see at the cinema these days, and after the clusterfuck that was Godzilla, I don’t know whether I’m gonna see DOFP till I can rent it for a third of the price of a cinema ticket.

  • me

    I think his point was when he started comic book movies he didn’t have big stars available to him like marvel had with RDJ.

    Or its not do much about iron man as it is who he could get at the time.

  • me

    And lol at the folks talking about his proclivities. Apparently you are chosen or grew up on a deserted island. Hollywood is nothing but depraved people preying on aspiring actors

  • me

    Chosen should have said young

  • Zarathos No Daimaōh

    Even that point makes little sense . He had frickin’ Halle Berry from the start , a hot commodity back then , and he did literally nothing with her . Robert Downey’s star power had massively waned , after his substance issues .. Let’s not pretend everyone saw Kiss Kiss Bang Bang . We know very well that , in the young public at least , people didnt know him much or at all before Im . It’s the movie that made both Iron Man and Downey Jr such big mainstream icons again .

    Regardless of the quality of DoFP , right there in those interview , he’s being dishonest and look sour and on the defensive

  • CogInTheWheel

    “The Avengers is a mash-up of massive single character franchises of incredibly familiar characters and Iron Man. And did I mention Iron Man? Oh, and by the way – Iron Man.”

    Kinda like how Wolverine is the leader, main character, and apparently savior of every x-men movie. He essentially had 2 team movies to himself and still had two spin-off solo movies. It’s never about “The X-Men” it’s about Wolverine….the X-Men just happen to be there.

    Wolverine: Days of Future Past.

  • John Everyman

    Christopher Nolan reads some of the comics. He’s a particularly big admirer of The Long Halloween, to the point where he even wrote a forward for a newer edition of it.

  • me

    Child. Learn sone history. Halle Berry became huge with Monster’s Ball. Look up when that came out versus the first Xmen. Until that point she was mostly known as being attractive

    RDJ was a star. At that point he was known as squandered talent but he was a star nonetheless; from Oscar nominations to mainstream runs on popular TV shows he had star power. Nonetheless he won a golden globe for his turn on television.Xmen’s biggest “stars” were a girl who was in an Oscar nominated movie when she was a little girl, and two old men, one with a huge cult following and the other a nominee.

    And of course Paltrow was an Oscar winner and landing her was a coup.

    But hey, let’s not let reality get in the way of your fanboy hatred. Carry on

  • Alex H

    To be fair, there are two major differences between the X-men franchise and the Avengers franchise of films that make significant differences.

    As Singer mentions, Avengers is a culmination of solo projects – you have the audiences of 4 franchises funneled into a single film, and even if there is a 90% overlap for each one, that still means you are going to get an increase on any individual character. It’s a neat trick really, you have those 4 gateways into the Avengers, and once you are there you can sell Captain America to an Iron man fan or Thor to a Hulk fan and so on. X-men has the opposite structure – the team is the core concept and spinning out characters, even Wolverine, is only going to get you people who liked that in the first place. With the exceptions of probably literally Wolverine, Gambit and Cable, X-characters aren’t even designed to to work as solo characters in the first place – they are too tied to the central metaphor of mutants and without enough to do in the world without it.

    Equally, lets not forget that Iron man and all subsequent Marvel inhouse films wouldn’t exist without the original X-men. X-men literally created the market for superhero films, and the MCU is built on that market, and has clearly learnt the lessons given by Spider-man, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider and of course X-men. There is no way an Iron man film made at the time X-men 1 came out would be any more faithful to the comics than that first X-men was. It’s only through gaining confidence in the genre that more respectful adaptations have been able to be made.

    Yes the MCU is on average a better set of films, but the X-men films don’t deserve the flak they get – the two actually bad entries were not directed by Singer, and were at this point 4 and 5 films ago respectively. The Wolverine, First Class and from the reviews I’ve been hearing, Days of Future Past are well within the quality range of the MCU.

  • John Northey

    In many respects the X-Men’s persecution was parallel to the persecution seen for those who were not white in the 60’s, then it shifted to match up with homosexual persecution. In the future whatever the next group that becomes clearly persecuted will be the one the X-Men parallel. Just nature of the beast – the X-Men are persecuted so the writers (TV, Movie, and Comics) will parallel whichever group is the most obviously marginalized, or readers/viewers will do it for them.

  • Alex Hayden

    The article says that it was on an upward trend for the first three movies and it’s been on a downward trend since then.

  • John Northey

    Singer can complain as much as he wants, as long as the movies he makes (X1, X2, Future Past) are good. If he stays with it who knows, maybe the X-Men will become as big a franchise as The Avengers. The two franchises went about it differently – Avengers focused on individual characters then merged them while the X-Men is trying to go from group to individual. If Wolverine Origins had been better done then we might have been talking about the Avengers trying to catch up to X-Men as it probably would’ve led to a Storm (among others) movie. If only we could see a parallel universe where Singer stuck around for X3 and Wolverine…

  • Zagreus

    Not sure about Whedon there as Whedon actually wrote a pretty fantastic comic run of Astonishing X-men.

  • Zagreus

    These Hollywood guys are in their own little Hollywood world. All they know are movies and most of them probably don’t even read, not even talking about comics, here, but anything. When you hear guys like Goyer or Singer talk i’m like… wow, they really don’t have a clue. They have the connections and they can do like basic script writing or whatever, but if they don’t see that something already has an established value in pop culture (Iron Man is huge- give me Iron Man. Let’s do something with the Donner Superman!) they don’t get it. They aren’t the guys who can actually create and make it have that value. They just repackage it, slap some CGI together, and sure they’re semi-competent, but that’s as good as it gets. They don’t have that much originality in them. And I guess I can’t fault them for that. Not many people do. When they open their mouths it becomes so INCREDIBLY obvious though, it’s amazing…

  • Jimbo Jones

    Isn’t Singer the Jew pedophile?

  • Batfreak

    X-Men is a mash-up of incredibly familiar characters from out of their respective time periods in the X-Men universe and Wolverine. And did I mention Wolverine? Oh, and by the way – Wolverine.

  • Zarathos No Daimaōh


    And see , right there we could at least argue and have a nice chat . But you’re just some rude moron . So no point going further .

  • Crimsonrain

    Gonna pass on the X-Men movie. I stopped after X-Men 3. I’ve also stopped on the Spiderman movies. I’ll just stick with the Marvel produced movies. I’m not sure how many of the X-Men would be able to survive a solo movie…outside of Wolverine of course. And with the Spiderman movies…um Sinister Six? Marvel can team up or break up their cast. They other two studios are pretty much limited to what they can do with any degree of success.

  • me

    Well his ethnicity is certainly important.

    Good god, does your country have a redneck bigot academy ?

    HOW is it the year 2014 and things like race, abortion and sexuality still play key roles in elections.

    Talk about days of future past.

  • me

    Exactly. I am talking to an imbecile who thinks Halle Berry was a big player back then. You spew incorrect info while declaring someone’s point makes little sense.

    Go back to your alternate dimension where Halle Berry was a star before Monster’s Ball and Iron Man did not have a Golden Globe Winner and an Oscar Winner.

  • Jimbo Jones

    What is your snide opinion of this? I would love to hear from you.

    … babies infected with herpes as part of metzitzah b’peh,a controversial circumcision rite performed by many ultra Orthodox Rabbis has just reached 14. During the circumcision rite the Rabbi sucks the blood from the penis after the foreskin has been cut, a rite that is still exposing children to herpes. The strangest part of this story has been the lack of involvement from the New York City Health Department, or Office of Child Protection which has yet to confirm if the department is enforcing the parental consent form. Since we last brought you this story more babies have been infected according to Jewish Daily Forward.

  • Tokit

    See that the thing unlike Iron man, Hulk, etc. Most of the X-men’s names don’t lend themselves to solo films (Since a movie called Cyclops or Storm or Iceman isn’t as trademark able). And with the exception of Wolverine, most of the core X-men are only really viable as a group. The Avengers were only great because of the initial solo films that set up the final team up. Avengers would not have been nearly as successful if they lead off with Avengers (since you would lose a lot of set up)

  • Tokit

    Iron man did have that cartoon (and was the only one of those awesome 90s marvel cartoons to not get bought as a movie during Marvels bankruptcy around that time). So there is that

  • Frank Morris

    You’re not gonna get a coherent response from him on that!

  • Jimbo Jones

    Of course not because the facts are, Jews love sucking on babydicks.

  • Guest


  • Baz

    These Hollywood guys in their Hollywood lives also invite minors to their pool parties.

  • Baz

    Fuck the Golden Globe shit. RDJ prior to 2008 was washed up and waking up high in other people’s houses. He was the joke of Hollywood and was on the celebrity death watch. Making a movie with him as a lead actor was a huge gamble. Marvel was very hesitant on this as they wanted a nice guy image and also didn’t want their star to crash and burn after 1 movie, leaving them hanging. Favreau begged Marvel to give RDJ a chance. RDJ was even paid less than Terrence Howard. Also,, RDJ was not a box office star. He was not the draw for this movie. The huge success was the script, ensemble cast, talented marketing and great reviews. Something the Singer movies lacked.

  • me


  • me

    You are under the impression a name goes away.

    Let’s humor your view though and explain Paltrow

  • The Last Word

    I agree entirely — none of the X-Men (except Wolverine) work in a solo format. I mean, go to your local comic store — there’s no monthly ongoing Storm title, no title for Colossus, or Cyclops, or Nightcrawler.
    And another thing that most posters are simply missing — the reason Marvel started with Iron Man is because it is an INCREDIBLY simple story to tell. Genuis inventor manufacturers suit of armor. It doesn’t involve radioactive spiders, or Krypton, or gamma rays or Asgardian gods. It’s grounded in our reality, making it very accessible. Admittedly, Marvel struck gold with Downey, but the suits didn’t want him at the outset – Faveau had to lobby for him. Imagine how bad IM and the Avengers would have been with Tom Cruise, and we’re having a whole different conversation.
    Of course, none of this explains the horror of Green Lantern, but. . . .

  • me

    BTW RDJ was a gamble for INSURANCE reasons; his talent was NEVER in question

  • Jimbo Jones

    Stop sucking on babydicks, kykesucker.

  • MrAstros

    Let’s be honest, Neither M. Berry nor RDJ were tent-pole stars when their movies came out. X–men, however, was light years ahead of Iron Man in terms of popularity. The movie brought Iron Man out of the decade long doldrums.

    Furthermore, while both of you are right and wrong with certain parts of your arguments, the imbecile that has no name wins in who’s being the bigger jerk here.

  • Baz

    Oh yeah, I forgot about Paltrow. I mean, she was such a huge draw for this movie. I remember people lining up around the block looking forward to see the next Gwyneth Paltrow blockbuster movie.

  • me

    I am not Jewish but thanks for the enlightened discussion.

  • The Last Word

    You’re simply wrong on this point. Unlike Iron Man, Storm, Grey, Cyclops, Nightcrawler and Colossus have never been popular enough to support an ongoing monthly book. The only X-Man with that kind of support is Wolverine.

  • Baz

    And for the record, even if Paltrow had an Oscar, doesn’t mean shit. Look at all the stars that fell off after winning (Hello Cuba and Marisa!)
    Patrick Stewart, despite not having a gold statue, was a bigger draw as a supporting player in a movie like this over Paltrow considering comicbook fans are more than likely Trek fans.

  • unsean

    I would have to ask when did Nolan write the forward to The Long Halloween. My money is on after at least one Batman movie.

    Before Batman Nolan had no associations with comics. Nada, and though I don’t know for a fact, I am reasonable comfortable saying that he didn’t even read them.

  • unsean

    Exactly my point. If Joss Whedon never directed The Avengers, he would still have been writing comics. He knows the pacing, the feel, their entire world.

    That’s why The Avengers worked so well, and somehow managed not to marginalize any characters (Hawkeye wasn’t marginalized; Jeremy Renner didn’t like that his character was essentially a drone, though he received a good a good amount of screen time).

    The X-Men films cannot say the same (though admittedly there are more X-Men).

  • JoshUng

    It’s been said a few times already, but outside of Spiderman, X-Men were probably the most widely known Marvel characters until recently. I started reading the early 90s, and just got back into it, so I missed a lot, but when they first announced an Iron Man movie, I thought, “really?” He just wasn’t that big of a character when I was first reading.

    And X-Men had the Saturday morning cartoon for awhile for those who didn’t read comics.

    it’s not about what Avengers have and X-Men doesn’t, its the other way around. It’s that X-Men had “The Last Stand” and the two Wolverine solo movies that’s the cause of the Avengers franchise being much bigger.

  • me

    I was under the inpression that Civil War helped drag Iron Man out of the B list toilet along with Cap in anticipation of Marvel’s big plans. Guess someone should tell Mark Millar that some folks on the net did not get the memo.

    On another note do you hate your parents for naming you Mr Astros ?

  • me

    But but but…. They weren’t going for cult fandom were they ? I thought they were targeting the mainstream.

    I want referring to drawing power ; I was referring to the ability to attract A list stars which Paltrow was. Or perhaps you think, at the time, that comic book movies were a slam dunk ? Because spiderman 3 hadn’t just happened and Daredevil was such a distant memory ? Xmen last stand ?

    Marvel had big plans. They got a risky talent on board then landed a young Oscar winner.

    Singer didn’t have that luxury in 1999.

  • John Sheldon

    “every two years”? You DO know that X-Men 2 was in 2003…right?

  • KryptosXLayer2

    Wow, really? And when will the last Bryan Singer movie be released? Huh, in 2 years. And then when will Fox waste more money on Singer’s awful talents? Huh, in another 2 years. Try to keep up

  • MrAstros

    Boy, you ARE a Prick aren’t you??? You trolls on meassage board REALLY need to be bullied …BADLY.

  • Zagreus

    Oh, I got you. Misunderstood what you were saying there- yes we agree.

  • MrAstros

    Mark Millar is as pretentious and overbearing as you are. Look at Iron Man comics sales. They did not get to the level they are now until AFTER the Iron Man movie came out.

    Even with all that said, the late 90’s brought the X-men sales that no other comic has touched since.

  • Jason Smith

    Umm.. There is a monthly Cyclops and a Nightcrawler title. And a Storm one on it’s way. So yeah.. they don’t exist?
    Not to mention Mystique, Emma Frost, Rogue, Gambit, Deadpool, Cable, X-Man, and even.. Doop have had (or n Doop’s case currently have) on-going solo titles.

    X-Men is still a more recognizable property than Avengers ever was BEFORE the movies. There have been 2X-Men titles and at least 4 X-Men spin-offs for decades while the Avengers has struggled to have 1-2 titles through most of that.

  • matt

    I should have stopped at the article. I need to learn my lesson. These threads on CBR always end up being one geek calling the other geek ignorant. Everyone presenting their opinions as facts. People declaring “This will suck. I’m not going to see it (read it), and everyone should listen to me”. Always a strong position to take.
    I’m beginning to think the internet is a dead medium for comic book discussion.

  • me

    In 2009, a year after Iron Man 1, sales were at 2002 levels at around 53,0000.

    During the Civil War phase, two Iron Man titles combined for between 70,000-80,000 sales per month.

    So, I am not sure what your ultimate point is, but you should probably stop stating things as fact when you are not even close. Things like “Look at Iron Man comics sales. They did not get to the level they are now until AFTER the Iron Man movie came out.”

    That is just plain dead wrong.

    As for Xmen, yes, you are right on that one; after people (finally) tired of McFarlane’s nonsense, Xmen took over the landscape before the whole market fell off.

  • me

    Troll ?

    Seriously ?

    There are people here spewing racial hatred. You are spewing absolutely false information while calling people a jerk when they did not address you.

    I think you need to learn what a troll is, good sir.

  • me

    It was that way long before the internet.

    DC vs Marvel predates the web. Like Trek vs Wars.

  • nooneknowme

    Iron Man is more popular than Spider-Man or X-men now.

  • Aquartertoseven

    More ridiculous fanboy whining.

  • Aquartertoseven

    X-Men, X2, First Class, The Wolverine and now Days of Future Past, yeah, they definitely need to get their shit together! X-Men>MCU.

  • Tokit

    But Avengers has the luxury of multiple ongoing solo titles (Since most X-men solo titles usually don’t last as long). There are exceptions but for most all X-men solo titles are spin off of the x-men, where Avengers is collection of individuals. Cyclops from trial of Jean Grey, Night crawler from Amazing X-men, etc.

  • me

    It helps that the original rich normal human guy with gadgets proved bankable. The guy who pretends to drink and pretends to be a playboy.

  • James Veber

    Methinks he doth protest too much

  • unsean

    Exactly. I read this blogpost,, that commented upon this very issue. Marvel Studios started with their B-list characters (Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Captain America) because the A-listers (Spider-Man and the X-Men) were licensed to various studios.

    Marvel took those properties, and made them A-listers by using good actors, and innovative direction.

    While Sony and 21st Century Fox are turning A-list comic characters into B-list movies.

    Fascinating what you can do when you have the drive and determination, something someone clearly hasn’t told Singer about.

  • unsean

    I don’t agree. For a group that’s more dependent upon the team dynamic, like the X-Men you could start with the initial X-Men movie, then add movies about individual members.

    So that when you get to another X-film, you have already built up demand.

    Plus, and this is the important part, the movie is called ‘X-Men, not X-Man. Wolverine is cool, but there are other characters that can be explored as well.

    For instance, there’s no reason why, after the first movie, there couldn’t have been a feature featuring Cyclops, Storm, or Iceman as well as Wolverine.

    These features would be (monetarily) cheaper than the larger movies, and serve to expand the individual mythology of the characters without appearing desperate (as seems to be the case with Sony and their Spider-Man expansion).

  • unsean

    That may be the case, but at numerous times there have been mini-series featuring Cyclops, Storm, Havok, and others, so there is a precedent.

    It’s not that Iron Man’s story is that simple, it that, in the case of The Amazing Spider-Man. it was made needlessly complicated.

    And you have to keep in mind that, in reference to Robert Downey Jr. that the suits didn’t want him not because of his lack of ability, but because he was a heavy drug user for quite awhile, and almost destroyed his career.

    That Marvel took a chance on him at all tells you either that they saw something in him that few people did or that Favreau was remarkably convincing.

  • Tokit

    My point is that X-men lends itself more to expansion then partition (I.e. things like X-force, X-factor, Gen X, eXcalibur, and whatever adjectives you place before x-men). So that while you could make a film centered on Storm and Black Panther relationship (He is in a Grey area from Fox with FF franchise) or Cyclops and Jean Greys future adventures raising their son or the dynamics of night crawlers family it is all dependent on others (because here is the thing all X-men are the main characters but also each others supporting cast). what few examples of solo X titles always end up leaning on the team book. Thus easier just to go as a team concept. Since most Avengers came prepackaged with a support cast that was not the case for the X-men. Also I did state the Solo film franchises of the X-men have the main problem of recognition (since calling a film “Starjammers” is easy to cash in on then something called Cyclops (yes I was aware of his current solo title) or calling a film X-force instead of Cable and Deadpool (actually I take this one back, I would totally watch that)). The problem as I stated was that X-men as a whole is WAY more recognized in general population then individual x-men.

  • unsean

    It’s a valid point, but the only reason that Fox cannot take an approach similar to Marvel’s is because they have not invested in their individual characters as much.

    Sure, they have invested in CERTAIN characters, like Wolverine, and….

    That’s it.

    Here’s how it would work. X-Men: Days Of Future Past cost $200 million. Supposedly the next film will have something to do with Apocalypse (I have no idea if it’s taking place in the future of past) and I assume comes out in the next three or four years.

    In that time they could have individual adventures of Cyclops, Storm or Iceman (smaller films, costing somewhere in the range of $50-$100 million dollars, something relatively cheap that expands the universe in a way that the team films haven’t.

    These individual films would be interconnected with each other, in the sense that events that happen in one would be reflected in the other films to some degree.

    So, by the time the next film rolls around, you already have had at least one, preferable two or three, films involving individual X-Men.

    This serves at the same time to excite the fan base.

    It’s a strategy similar to Marvel Studios’ approach, but takes into account that Fox’s approach is different.

  • Tokit

    No see if Fox was smart it would scoop up those “Grey area” characters (since Fantastic Four and X-men shaped the marvel universe the most and fox has both). They should do Black Panther and have Storm, The Inhumans, Namor, and seriously if you use Dr. Doom as a stand in for Dr. Strange and Iron man they can have the illuminati (with beast and/or Xavier). Most of the iconic marvel aliens are from these two franchises (Brood, Shi’ar, Skrull, Kree, Galactus and his hearlds, Starjammers, etc). There are way more things they could do with the X characters, but it’s difficult to market x-men solo films based on their names

  • unsean

    The X-Men universe is huge, and they aren’t exploiting it very well as it is, so I doubt that they would do better with more characters.

    Marvel Studios also has the Black Panther, and the Inhumans, but they do have the others.

    The problems remains though, namely how can you expand something that hasn’t been built-out in the first place, which my plan would do.

  • Tokit

    Except Fox doesn’t / won’t use the more comic book styled approach of the other guys but would be more inclined to pull the proverbial dick move of grabbing the characters that straddle multiple franchises as plugging them in. Interconnected movies for Fox would require alternating and expanding their two existing properties, and not rebooting them for a while. Since like I said very few story lines of the Solo x-men stories are really that great and those that were are the ones that were told in uncanny X-men itself or else spun off of set up in an x-men book.

  • Tokit

    So its better to expand with X teams (Shove Starjammers in and you can get at least two cosmic story lines (Build up to War of the kings or something). Get X-factor to be a schism X-men team. X-force to counter Apocalypse. The possibilities are there for an eventual “Illuminati” to counter Skrull or the Brood made up of various prices of the two franchises. The main point is to make giant strides of world building to have an incentive to not reboot and better integration

  • Yawantpancakes?

    Marvel has the rights to Black Panther, Kree and The Inhumans. Universal has Namor’s rights.

  • Tokit

    They might be in a Grey area since they did originate in Fantastic Four and Fox holds the rights to that franchise. Was not aware of the Namor thing still being an issue though. And of course marvel has the rights to all of them because they are marvel creations. So might end up being like quicksilver was (speaking of which his daughter is an inhuman and her aunt was on the FF and Frightful four).

  • Yawantpancakes?

    There is no gray area. Marvel Studios (not comics) has the rights for BP, the Kree and the inhumans.

  • coren

    If you consider 20 million less a downward trend (considering it was less than a 3 percent difference it seems marginal at best) and that The Wolverine made more than either of those two movies (nevermind that the Wolverine movies have at best a marginal relation to First Class and that First Class was somewhat of a franchise reboot), the comparison seems a bit flawed.

  • Zarathos No Daimaōh

    There is no gray area for those . Marvel even had co-access to the skrulls , but choose not to use it . For instance , Marvel can use the Skrulls because they’re related to the Hulk, but they’re also important to the Fantastic Four. Super Skrull is solely related to the Fantastic Four so Marvel can’t use him.

    Namor isn’t split. Universal outright has his rights . He’s only very technically a mutant and they only exploited that angle in comics lately and post contract .

    Mutants who lack decades of history with The Avengers can’t join the MCU. That means that Wolverine, Storm, Rogue and Havok are still with Fox alone. The only exception other than Quicksilver and SW is probably Beast but Marvel can’t call him a mutant which is so integral to his identity that he’ll probably never be part of the MCU.

    Fox has a loophole whereby they can use all properties related to X-Men and Fantastic Four. This means that Captain Britain, Alpha Flight, Starjammers and Silver Surfer spin-offs are a possibility.
    I’m not sure where the rights to the Brood lie but they’re probably shared as they’re both tied to the X-Men and Ms. Marvel.

    The Shi’ar seems to have mostly been Xmen related characters , and used that way in medium like cartoons too . He’ll even today they are mostly X related , and just obviously interract with other races , as part of one of the core and major space empire of the MU .

    Either way regardless of who’s tied to whom , Marvel , sony and Fox probably did some initial cuts and negociating that give each a few properties that feels “iffy” . Like inhumans .. why would Fox have cared for the fringe group , when they got the mutants and can just tie them to their FF franchise ? And does fox even want to explore most cosmic stuff and race , outside of FF and silver surfer stories ?

  • Chris Pickrell

    To be fair, X-Men did kind of pave the way. And because Marvel characters had been sold to the highest bidder, it took a while for Marvel to get back at the reigns and make the movies good (hence a few reboots).

    But the X-Men movies were pretty solid IMO (I should state, I am a HUGE X-Men fan). Origins and X3 blew chunks. I have only seen them once, just so I could say I saw them before I criticize them. But they were bad. Really bad. I really liked First Class and The Wolverine though. I think they were a decent attempt to rebuild the franchise. And I wouldn’t mind seeing some expanded universe with Cable/New Mutants/X-Force (and With Sunspot and Apocalypse, it’s possible), as well as maybe some X-Factor too.

  • Chris Pickrell

    To be fair, Avengers and the like were A-Listers before X-Men were A-Listers. X-Men didn’t become uber popular until the ’90s. Yes they were great stories, but the ’90s was when they got their push. To the point that former X-Men Editor turned Marvel Editor Bob Harras turned Marvel into X-Men only comics for a few years which lead to his replacement developing “Heroes Reborn” post Onslaught.

  • Chris Pickrell

    I never read Iron Man, and I knew a lot about him before the movie came out.

  • Chris Pickrell

    Actually, they haven’t had ongoing series, but many X-Men have had solo mini series, over the years ;)

    Cyclops has one currently I believe, Gambit has one now and did in the past, Storm, and others.

  • Ray Lopez

    Singer is a dumbass, Just about every movie released by Marvel studios has made more money than ANY of Singers X movies, Singers just full of himself because his latest outing managed to make money and did I mention his rape scandal helped those numbers???

  • Chau

    They all sucked. Haven’t seen Days of the future Past. 1. Angel, Iceman, Jean Grey, Cyclops were the first original X-Men, but hey, Singer got Beast right. 2. Mistique has no or little relationship with Charles Xavier at all. 3. Banshee is Irish. 4. Mistique gave birth to Night Crawler. 5. Juggernaut is not a human. (Charles Xavier’s step brother) 6. Colossus is Russian not some jock. 7. Lady Deathstryke’s (aka Yuriko Oyama) father is the one who bonded the admantium to Wolverine. There was a bit of on and off romance between them 8. How is it you’re a huge fan and not catch all this?

  • Chris Pickrell

    You presume I didn’t. But did it ever occur to you I didn’t care?

    Did it ever occur to you that A: I liked the movies because they were BASED on my favorite comic, not a literal interpretation? B: Some changes had to be made to account for a 75 year history? and C: The movies are a different universe and not meant to be 616 (which is actually Marvel’s ACTUAL explanation for the changes to get around the fact that when Marvel sold the rights they were desperate for money and that was why they sold them, and had limited control in the movies outside of Marvel Studio’s control)?

    You imply I’m NOT a huge fan, but didn’t know any of this?

    Or did you just ignore it so you could claim I was a pretend fan?

    The movies didn’t suck. They only sucked to you because you are one of those purists who thinks they need to be 100% exact interpretations of the source material.

    1. Beast was ALSO an original X-Man. I’ll write that off as a typo.

    2. Mystique actually had an antagonistic relationship with Xavier, because she was convinced Xavier stole Rogue from her. Plus, it’s “Mystique.”

    3. I know Banshee was Irish. Just like Moira Kinross McTaggert (who was not in the CIA either, she was a leading geneticist and expert in mutant affairs, who in some small ways inspired the idea of the X-Man in her discussions with Xavier about the coming evolution, when they were in graduate school if I remember correctly). Also, Moira was the mother of Proteus, and a love interest of Xavier’s, for a time. She even had a small group of students of her own (Darwin, Vulcan, Petra and Sway were the second team of X-Men, sent to save the original from Krakoa before the Giant Size X-Men, but some of them died, and Xavier suppressed the memory in everyone (Vulcan being the third Summers brother that was the adopted son of a Shiar Royal).

    4. Yes, she did, and Azazel, a Demon, was his father. Not a Russian swashbuckler that looked like a red Nightcrawler. What’s your point?

    5. Juggernaut IS a human. He got the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak. He wasn’t a MUTANT, as portrayed in X3 (which was terrible, just like Wolverine Origins). The gem was the source of his powers, and recently (during Fear Itself), Piotr Rasputin/Colossus became the Juggernaut to destroy Kuurth.

    6. Kitty Pride was Jewish, Bobby Drake was the son of a well off accountant who was a true mutant hater and despised his son, not a middle class guy who wasn’t all that mad. Angel wasn’t a stripper, that should have been Pixie, and she shouldn’t have spit acid, Riptide was a Marauder not part of the Brotherhood (and one of the Marauders who slaughtered the Morlocks, as a result of Sugarman post Age of Apocalypse).

    Still, not sure of your point.

    7. Lady Deathstrike also took over the Reavers. Again, what are you trying to prove, other than the movies are different, which no one denies, as Marvel has established that the movies are in the a different universe than 616 (Earth-10005 actually, where the Avengers are in 19999).

    Sebastian Shaw wasn’t long lived, he also wasn’t a Nazi. You knew that right? You’re an expert.

    8. You presume that because I don’t care, that means I didn’t realize it, and therefore am not an actual fan. Because that proves your point that only you noticed this, and only you can say whether the movies are good. If you don’t like them, why are you commenting?

    I just don’t care about the changes. Jurassic Park was different than the book, but I still liked it. Your point is moot, just because you think I didn’t catch it, doesn’t mean the movies sucked and you’re right. It just means you presumed something that proved your personal narrative.

    But yeah, don’t question my enjoyment and knowledge of the comic. Especially when you claim Cain Marko isn’t human to prove you know more than me, even though you weren’t actually wrong.

    Have a good night.

  • That Yellow Bastard

    Best CBM this yeas was X-Men Days of Future Past Just like the best in 2011 was First Class

  • That Yellow Bastard

    You missed the best CBM this year

  • That Yellow Bastard

    They’re trying to make him more popular but these remain Marvels flagships. They been the most popular for decades. Marvel pushing other characters won’t change that

  • brian

    Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, and Captain America: The First Avenger disagree with you.

  • X-Men – Marvels #1 Team

    First Class out rated both of those and X-Men Days of Future Past is only 1% from tying with Guardians

  • Zagreus

    Untrue. Beast had a solo series in the 70’s. There was a whole thing about him looking human, experimenting on himself, turning blue, his shenanigans with some company, genetic manipulation, wearing a flesh-like mask to look human in public, etc. His comic was called “The Beast” and he had his own logo and everything. It’s really about which characters the company decides to back, and invest in, and which ones they don’t care about so much. When Marvel decided “Darkhawk” was the next big thing in the 80’s… well Darkhawk got his own book and was all of a sudden cool. Then he wasn’t hitting his numbers maybe and then Darkhawk wasn’t so cool anymore. TBTB didn’t grow up w/ Darkhawk and nobody gave a shit. Now the new generation remembers Darkhawk and so he’s gaining a little traction again, and around and around it goes. Singer, a self confessed non comic reader- he doesn’t know squat. All he knows is movies. He knew the Donner movies. So he jumped on Superman and made a Donner homage (of course) because that’s all he knew. … (i could go on and on. I need a blog)

  • FiachSidhe


    Avengers was made by a guy who actually LIKES and even writes comics, understands that a movie can be good and successful by remaining true to, and respecting the source material, and doesn’t choose characters simply because they like said characters powers.

    While X-Men movies are made by a guy who hates comics, bans them from the set of his films, rewrites characters, and goes about filming his own X-Men based fanfiction. FUBARing his own continuity. Underplays everyone but the leads and generally wastes the potential X-Men films have to be amazing.

    Of course Singer doesn’t want them compared. Avengers shows everyone that faithful comic movies can do well. Avengers was better than all of the X-Men movies.

  • FiachSidhe

    I’m a huge fan of the X-Men since the early 80’s. I thought the films were terrible, because I don’t lack objectivity. The second one is the only film that isn’t mediocre at best,

  • Chris Pickrell

    Eh, I’m a fan of the X franchise, but even I would admit that MCU has done a better job at making a long story.

  • Chris Pickrell

    And that’s fine. If you don’t like the films, you don’t like the films.

    I was responding to a specific, direct comment though. Not to all non fans. He questioned me claiming I was a fan and not catching things in the movies. There’s a huge difference between not catching it and not caring that the stories were slightly different.

    But my intent wasn’t to question all non fans.

    Like I said, disliking them cause they changed things, is different than disliking them because you personally didn’t like the movies.

  • X-Men – Marvels #1 Team

    That blogpost is incorrect. Sony and Fox haven’t reduced X-Men and Spider-Man as Marvels flagships. Marvel has pushed Avengers into A-List but when the movies end they’ll go back to B list while X-Mena be Spider-Man will remain A-list.

  • X-Men – Marvels #1 Team

    He didn’t say they were accurate he said they were good. And it not like Avengers is all that accurate either. Lots of changes there too.

  • X-Men – Marvels #1 Team

    Agreed. X-Men > MCU

  • Neat


  • John Vivolo

    The x-men have always been superior to the Avengers in the comics. The Avengers are a bunch of superheroes fighting bad guys. Boring. The X-men fight against racism and each other often. They fight for a world that hates and fears them. They fight for a dream that will probably never come true, but they never give up. They are a family. The Avengers are just a bunch of superheroes in spandex.

  • trekwars1

    xmen were alisters. the avengers were not. gosh mcu fans are so stupid. xmen were popular long before the 80s as two of the most iconic comic storylines came from xnen.

    avengers where all blister. it is why when marvel went bamkruypt they sold spiderman and xmen because they were their only alist herors.

    no one cared of avengers until disney kiddie films.

  • Chris Pickrell

    I like how you call MCU fans stupid, but can’t use a proper capital letter, or dash, such as “A-lister.”

    1. I have read every issue of the X-Universe, except for a chunk in the ’00s when they got super weird. But I’m slowly catching up.

    2. Unless it was part of an X-men crossover, I haven’t read any Avengers titles.

    Regardless, X-Men was originally a failed franchise. Hence All-New Giant-size in the ’70s. With newer, more diverse characters.

    I never said they weren’t popular in the ’80s (they were, to a small degree), but they weren’t UBER popular (lunch box, cartoons, cultural phenomena) until the ’90s. When Marvel almost went bankrupt, they sold X-Men because at the time, X-Men was huge. But that was shortly after X-Men and Uncanny X-Men split, New Mutants became X-Force, X-Factor (the remixed version of the ORIGINAL X-Men team) became the Gov’t liaison group (Havok, Polaris, etc).

    But yes, they sold those rights, even though it was almost 7-8 years before anything was done with them.

    But that didn’t happen in the ’80s. Or the ’70s. Neither did Heroes Reborn. No one banked Marvel’s future on the X-Men in the ’80s. That was the ’90s.

    Yes, they were popular. And yes, The Dark Phoenix Saga came in 1980, but that was really only 5 years after Giant Size X-Men. Not to mention the FIRST part of the Phoenix Saga came in the ’70s anyway, but whatever.

    As for Days of Future past, I don’t know about Iconic. It was memorable, but so were so many other story lines. Not to mention I think stories like Infinity War and Secret Wars were bigger when it comes to “iconic.”

    All Days of Future Past really did was introduce Rachel Summers. It was just your basic time travel story. And if it hadn’t been revisited in story lines like Days of Future Present, Messiah Complex, integrated into Bishop’s origins in Messiah Complex (which of course indirectly relates it to Onslaught which loosely ties it into Nate Grey and Age of Apocalypse, and so many other story lines), was twice visited by the Excalibur team, tied it into the origin of one of those characters as well, visited in Days of Future Tense, Wolverine: Days of Future Past, Hulk: Broken Worlds, and currently a Secret Wars sequel is being worked on. Even the Summer’s Rebellion was visited (which IIRC correctly

    They always revisit it, much like they always kill and revive Jean Grey.

    Now, I’m not saying these stories aren’t great stories. But to claim that a whole decade is the definitive decade, because of two, not even major story lines, but minor and semi major story lines, is kind of absurd. If you look at all the major cross overs of the ’80s, 3 of the 11 are mutant related (it could be argued that the Evolutionary War is mutant related, but it could go either way, and isn’t directly mutant related) are mutant based, and half of those are just crossovers with throw away tie ones (punisher, Power Pack, Daredevil, etc).

    Where as in the ’90s, 14 of the 20 major story lines, were Mutant related. And most of them, have defined the X-Men ever since. DofP and Phoenix Saga, have more or less just been revisited.

    Personally, I see lots of other story lines, from the ’80s, and other decades, being just as iconic, but since they haven’t been revisited once a year on the Anniversary of Jean Grey’s death, they don’t get as much praise.

    Claremont was an awesome writer, that’s for sure. But the ’80s were hardly the most popular decade for the X-Universe. The ’80s were definitely their rise to popularity, but the ’90s were definitely their biggest decade. Especially when you consider that in the ’80s, there was only Uncanny, New Mutants and X-Factor. Where as in the ’90s, there was X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Factor, X-Force, Generation-X, and Excalibur saw it’s popularity rise with tie ins to the X-men with Brian Braddock, Nightcrawler and Rachel Summers.

    Yes, Dofp and Phoenix Saga were great story lines, but nothing outrageously defining. Jean Grey died. And was brought back, and then died, and then brought back in alternate realities, and time travel, and clones, and questionable rebirths in 15 year old girls who have completely different power sets. Phoenix Sage was great, but the ultimate result of it has become the trope. It has become the punchline, of retconning poignant deaths because favored characters can’t stay dead cause fans don’t like them.

    And DofP started a trend that persists to THIS day, so much so that Marvel has gone Meta and written a time traveling story in X-men where the X-Men are blamed for screwing up the time line so much that they caused all sorts of crazy issues to happen (again, IIRC, it’s one of the catalysts that created Secret Wars III, among other things), and brought All-New X-Men to modern times, because they still can’t figure out how to bring back the real Jean Grey. But has still created this crazy time hopping go to trope that has made the X-Men universe so muddied sometimes.

    In a way, the greatest story lines in X-Men history, created the most overused tropes, and turned them indirectly into punch lines.

    But to claim that they were popular in the ’80s because of two iconic story lines (much of that distinction was decided in the ’90s and the ’00s. Not in the ’80s when they were published). The ’90s is when they had their most popularity.

    And that’s all I was saying. I didn’t say they sucked in the ’80s or didn’t matter. I just the ’90s were definitely their peak. And they had some epic story lines and new characters and changes that effected everything.

    But to get to my original point. The Avengers were never really B-listers. But they were around before the X-men, more or less. Or at least came out at the same time. And the original X-men was canceled after about 2 years IIRC. The Avengers wasn’t IIRC.

    Just saying.

  • Chris Pickrell

    I would hate to be a new X-men reader today. The story lines were so complicated and odd before SW/BW. And the whole point of Decimations/198 was negated, because they just kept introducing weirder and weirder characters again, and flipping story lines and personas (like making Cyclops the militant one, and Wolverine the Responsible one). They got super complicated. And AvX was cool, but kind of went against the continuity of the Grey family being chosen carriers of the Phoenix Force.

  • trekwars1

    dofp was a defining story and so was the phoenix sgea. your talking gibberish. avengers were b listers. this is why xmen, ff4 and spiderman were sold when marvel went bankrupt. they were their three main a list herores
    no one care or heard about avengers till the marvel disney shitting films.

    for marvel the only heroes to ever match batman and superman sales was xmen and spiderman. xmen 1 still remains the best selling single comic of all time. avengers will always be b listers so will guardians of the galaxy. all this heroes became famous because of their shitty films and they have no longevity in the comic world like xmen, spiderman , batman or superman. saying avengers is as popular as xmen is like saying iron man is now as popular as superman because his films make billion. wrong.

    it was the xmen book sales that was keeping marvel aflot from going bankrupt not avengers just saying.

    poor mcu fans they talk so much trash. avengers were b listers and will always b listers. regardless of their billions

  • Mike

    oh, shut up faggot…

  • Chris Pickrell


  • Chris Pickrell

    Really? Out of the hundreds of thousands of words in the English language, and the best you can muster is some middle school insult?

    Tres gauche.

    Try again champ, this time maybe use something from a high school level of insult. Maybe that will get under my skin and I’ll react like you want.

  • Mike

    oh, shut up faggot…

  • Chris Pickrell


    Dumb, and unoriginal.

    Makes sense.